# A struggling executive may thrive in a different role

Markdown copy of https://realalpha.app/s/a-struggling-executive-may-thrive-in-a-different-role/ on Real Alpha, the best minutes from long interviews with the people building AI. Cite and link the page, not this copy.

- Speaker: [Ali Ghodsi](https://realalpha.app/builders/ali-ghodsi/) · Ali Ghodsi is cofounder and CEO of Databricks. · Co-founded Databricks, which he has led as CEO since 2016, and helped create Apache Spark.
- Host: [Logan Bartlett](https://realalpha.app/people/logan-bartlett/) · Software Investor, Redpoint Ventures · Backs enterprise software companies like Ramp, Cribl, Cyera and Legora.
- Show: The Logan Bartlett Show
- Episode: [Databricks CEO on Super AGI and Unlocking AI’s Untapped Potential](https://realalpha.app/v/pAcF3GV4ygM/), Nov 22, 2024
- Moment: 1:08:14 to 1:10:47 of the episode (3 min), playing on https://realalpha.app/s/a-struggling-executive-may-thrive-in-a-different-role/; the episode from there: https://realalpha.app/v/pAcF3GV4ygM/?t=4094

## Quote

> “i have found that there are **new roles for people** where they can continue to crush it”
> — [Ali Ghodsi](https://realalpha.app/builders/ali-ghodsi/) at [1:09:40](https://realalpha.app/v/pAcF3GV4ygM/?t=4180) · The Logan Bartlett Show

## Takeaways

1. Face signs that a leader is no longer succeeding instead of ignoring them.
2. Ask whether the role is working before debating the person.
3. Some executives can move into a different role and thrive.

## About this segment

Ali Ghodsi looks for signs that an executive is no longer succeeding, then makes the conversation about whether they are winning. He has shifted some leaders into roles where they performed better.

From “Databricks CEO on Super AGI and Unlocking AI’s Untapped Potential”, Nov 22, 2024. [Watch the full episode](https://realalpha.app/v/pAcF3GV4ygM/)

## Transcript

Transcribed by machine (Whisper) from the episode’s audio, so a word may be off here and there.

[1:08:18](https://realalpha.app/v/pAcF3GV4ygM/?t=4098) that got you there, they're starting to question if they're the ones that can get you there to the next step along the journey. It sounds like when you came in, you made that decision as CEO to uplevel a lot of leadership and i'm sure along the way you've you've kept ron and he's continued to scale in his role but i'm sure there's other functional areas that you've decided to upgrade um how have you gone about making the decision that hey it might be time to part with someone who's done a great job up to that point but you might need someone new to take you to the next level i think you have to just be truth-seeking with yourself so number one is like when do you know yourself that you know i think we kind of know there's the signals but we just don't want to see the truth we want to ignore it because it's it's so hard because this person helped

[1:08:55](https://realalpha.app/v/pAcF3GV4ygM/?t=4135) build a company with you. So you don't want to kind of admit it to yourself. But deep inside, you know. Deep, deep, deep, deep inside. So just immediately when that is there, just recognize it and face the truth. Be truth-seeking with yourself. Don't like yourself, at least, as an exec. Okay, once you know it yourself, now you have to take action. I found it easiest if you can explain to the person and get them on board that it's not really working.

[1:09:17](https://realalpha.app/v/pAcF3GV4ygM/?t=4157) Don't make it about, just make it like, is it working or not? Are you winning or not here? Are you winning or not? Just focus on that. And if they realize that, hey okay i am not winning well let's discuss why then i think everything else becomes much simpler it's like okay but then what do we do about what about you then so after you know like okay i'm not winning it's not quite working there are many reasons okay let's figure out a way to make this work then you can change steer the conversation towards okay what's the best thing for you your career i want to help you i want you to be successful i have found that there are new roles for people where they can continue to crush it i have had people that you know they in that role it wasn't working anymore and we found a new person that leads it

[1:09:56](https://realalpha.app/v/pAcF3GV4ygM/?t=4196) or you do the layering or whatever but you find a new role for this person and they crush it and they're awesome at it and they'll be happier actually. After a while it goes on they'll be like A, Ali's no longer bugging me about it not working. Second, I'm actually happier when I'm succeeding. When I'm winning, I'm happier than when I'm constantly it's not working and everything is going and I'm having a bad day every day.

[1:10:17](https://realalpha.app/v/pAcF3GV4ygM/?t=4217) So I've actually found that many of those folks you can keep them in the company. but you should also part ways if they're like just phoning it in and they're not interested anymore and they're just there for some memory of what happened in the early days when everything was great it's you're better off also parting ways too let's not waste their time and our time maybe zooming back out as we uh as as we wrap um as if someone's listening to this in a couple years time and we're sort of looking forward with your crystal ball that you claim not to have but