# Chen rallied OpenAI researchers during the leadership crisis

Markdown copy of https://realalpha.app/s/chen-rallied-openai-researchers-during-the-leadership-crisis/ on Real Alpha, the best minutes from long interviews with the people building AI. Cite and link the page, not this copy.

- Speaker: [Mark Chen](https://realalpha.app/builders/mark-chen/) · Mark Chen is chief research officer at OpenAI. · Led the teams behind DALL-E and Codex and visual perception in GPT-4, now oversees OpenAI's research.
- Host: [Ashlee Vance](https://realalpha.app/people/ashlee-vance/) · CEO, Core Memory · Wrote the best-selling biography Elon Musk; covered tech for Bloomberg Businessweek, The Economist and The New York Times.
- Show: Core Memory
- Episode: [How OpenAI Shapes Its Research And What's Next - EP 46 Mark Chen](https://realalpha.app/v/ZeyHBM2Y5_4/), Dec 1, 2025
- Moment: 47:17 to 50:26 of the episode (3 min), playing on https://realalpha.app/s/chen-rallied-openai-researchers-during-the-leadership-crisis/; the episode from there: https://realalpha.app/v/ZeyHBM2Y5_4/?t=2837

## Quote

> “I just set this goal of, I will **not lose a single person**. And we didn't.”
> — [Mark Chen](https://realalpha.app/builders/mark-chen/) at [48:46](https://realalpha.app/v/ZeyHBM2Y5_4/?t=2926) · Core Memory

## Takeaways

1. Chen set a goal of losing no researchers during the uncertainty.
2. Leaders opened their homes so researchers could share concerns.
3. More than 90% of the research org signed the petition by morning.

## About this segment

After the leadership shake-up, Mark Chen and colleagues opened their homes to researchers facing competing offers. He aimed to lose no one; more than 90% of the research org signed the petition by morning.

From “How OpenAI Shapes Its Research And What's Next - EP 46 Mark Chen”, Dec 1, 2025. [Watch the full episode](https://realalpha.app/v/ZeyHBM2Y5_4/)

## Transcript

Transcribed by machine (Whisper) from the episode’s audio, so a word may be off here and there.

[47:30](https://realalpha.app/v/ZeyHBM2Y5_4/?t=2850) And I don't know if this will or won't. And I assume you probably don't want to get too much into that, the coup or the blip or whatever we want to call it. Yeah, we can talk about anything. Yeah, yeah. Well, I just, I've, I've interviewed so many people about this now and I'm also going to save my, some of my gems for my book. So I won't, I won't give up myself, but there, there's a couple of moments in there where you, you know, you help get the researchers aligned around that, the petition to like bring Sam back.

[47:59](https://realalpha.app/v/ZeyHBM2Y5_4/?t=2879) And then, and then I. think just that either a day or two after that there's there's kind of like a speech you know given i think at greg's house maybe or is that i think chelsea's house okay yeah and and um you know both of those struck me as pretty profound moments in especially for um i guess like standing up with for what you believe in and rallying the troops i mean yeah like uh you know in a in a moment of crisis i don't know so do those um yeah i mean that did feel like a very pivotal moment for me i think in the days following the blip right there was a lot of uncertainty um and you know myself nick uh barrett at the time we felt this responsibility of you know the wolves are at the heels right everyone's getting calls from from all these competing labs, being like, you should come work here instead. And I just set this goal of, I will not

[49:01](https://realalpha.app/v/ZeyHBM2Y5_4/?t=2941) lose a single person. And we didn't. And it was just every day, opening up our houses, people could come here, they could have a place where they let out their anxiety. And then also just helping them keep in touch with the leadership team, having a way for them to feel like they could make a difference. And I think over time, people really felt the spirit of, hey, we're all in this together um how do we make a difference how do we signal to the world that we're all together and um you know we have been kind of driving back and forth uh between a couple houses and uh we had this idea of like hey you know we need to show the world that we're all seriously aligned and we're going to work for sam and um that's when the petition team together and And, you know, the idea, I think, got solidified at 2 a.m.

[49:53](https://realalpha.app/v/ZeyHBM2Y5_4/?t=2993) We got more than 90% of the whole research org signed, I think, by the morning. And it was just everyone, like, calling their friends, being like, hey, are you in or are you not? And, yeah, I think in the end, you know, it was very close to 100 people signing that petition. Well, I mean, that must have put you in something of a tough spot, though, just because, especially at the outset,