# Engagement-driven social media can deepen division

Markdown copy of https://realalpha.app/s/engagement-driven-social-media-can-deepen-division/ on Real Alpha, the best minutes from long interviews with the people building AI. Cite and link the page, not this copy.

- Speaker: [Bill Ackman](https://realalpha.app/people/bill-ackman/) · Bill Ackman is founder and CEO of Pershing Square. · Founded and runs Pershing Square, an activist investment firm; executive chairman of Howard Hughes Holdings.
- Host: [Nicolai Tangen](https://realalpha.app/people/nicolai-tangen/) · CEO, Norges Bank Investment Management
- Show: In Good Company with Nicolai Tangen
- Episode: [Bill Ackman: Is Permanent Capital an Investor’s Biggest Edge? | Podcast | In Good Company](https://realalpha.app/v/T8nHLUlRGkg/), Oct 28, 2026
- Moment: 32:43 to 38:03 of the episode (5 min), playing on https://realalpha.app/s/engagement-driven-social-media-can-deepen-division/; the episode from there: https://realalpha.app/v/T8nHLUlRGkg/?t=1963

## Takeaways

1. Ackman follows people with opposing views to test his ideas.
2. He says platforms profit when users spend more time on them.
3. He argues provocation can keep people engaged and deepen division.

## About this segment

Bill Ackman explains how he uses X to learn from opposing views, while warning that engagement incentives reward provocation. The design of social platforms can reinforce users’ existing beliefs and divide society.

From “Bill Ackman: Is Permanent Capital an Investor’s Biggest Edge? | Podcast | In Good Company”, Oct 28, 2026. [Watch the full episode](https://realalpha.app/v/T8nHLUlRGkg/)

## Transcript

Transcribed by machine (Whisper) from the episode’s audio, so a word may be off here and there.

[32:47](https://realalpha.app/v/T8nHLUlRGkg/?t=1967) very public and visible why is that a good thing um it one is just sort of inherent to who i am uh my you can go back to my high school yearbook it said uh it said a closed mouth a friend of mine wrote this little epithet it said you know bill ackman a closed mouth gathers no foot right so i was always i also i think i got most verbal something like this as my uh how people thought of me back then so did you get very did you get very little attention from your parents when you were little no i got plenty of attention it was more that they would say i never listened than then that whether they listened to me but uh it was always important my my principal driver in life has been i wanted to get to a place of independence so i could do what i wanted to do so i could say what i wanted to say and so always free speech was kind of important to me um i i

[33:41](https://realalpha.app/v/T8nHLUlRGkg/?t=2021) I went on X. Actually, Steven Pinker, you know, the intellectual Harvard professor, I met him at a dinner party. And he's like, Bill, you have to be on X. And I'm like, why? He says, well, actually, there are incredible conversations happening on X. And this is where I could learn most of my information. I follow a group of interesting people. And so I went on X more as a to learn. I did my first tweet at some point. And then I noticed I had 25,000 followers.

[34:09](https://realalpha.app/v/T8nHLUlRGkg/?t=2049) and I had maybe done one. How many have you got now? Just shy of three million and then I started getting you know I was always passionate about issues or politics or events but I started sort of sharing them and it's actually very valuable. You have people who agree with you, you have people who don't and you can learn from both and I use X in kind of an interesting way in that on I try on every issue to find the most articulate, thoughtful person on one side of the issue and then the same on the other side of the issue.

[34:43](https://realalpha.app/v/T8nHLUlRGkg/?t=2083) And I think it's very difficult to read. You know, every owner of a media property views the right of ownership to kind of shape, you know, the zeitgeist in some kind of way. So every media, I don't know that there's any media property where their intent is, let's just come out with the absolute truth. Usually, you know, the owner has a political bias or agenda, which is why it's actually quite powerful to have an open playing field where you can select, you know, who you want to listen to.

[35:15](https://realalpha.app/v/T8nHLUlRGkg/?t=2115) Now, most people, I think, psychologically like to hear from people who agree with them. I like to hear from people who agree with me. I also like to hear from people who disagree. So I've actually found it from an investment perspective. It's been one of my best sources of ideas, understanding what's going on in the world. And then from just being a citizen of the world, understanding important issues and hearing different perspectives.

[35:37](https://realalpha.app/v/T8nHLUlRGkg/?t=2137) So I like it. And then I'm now part of the conversation, which is – Like philosophically – so I agree with you. I also think there is something like the objective truth. Do you think philosophically that society is going in that direction or what do you think? I don't know that society is going to the objective truth. I think that the social media, unfortunately, is – I mean, why is the world so divided?

[36:00](https://realalpha.app/v/T8nHLUlRGkg/?t=2160) I think the answer, I mean, we probably have to blame Facebook and other social media because, you know, the dopamine is released and the advertising profits are released based on the amount of time someone spends on the app. And what people figured out is that, you know, triggering people is a way to keep them engaged. and the nature of social media today tends to push people to believe even stronger in whatever views they came to the the app with uh you know i've encouraged elon on twitter a couple times maybe i need to push him a little more privately i do think there should be a button on every every time you read a tweet you should be able to push a button to find the best argument you know who's the most followed person who's had the most articulate or maybe the most liked alternative

[36:50](https://realalpha.app/v/T8nHLUlRGkg/?t=2210) argument for the same subject so that i think it's very helpful to people to hear people make the case for the other side unfortunately people tend to go to you know uh they'll go to fox or they'll go to cnn or they'll go to whatever they're um what's the what's the key to keeping an open mind you have to believe that it's important i am i'm never convinced i i always want to hear the other side you know do you do you take it in properly yes um and investing by the way what's the best way to get conviction and investment idea find the best short seller in something that you own and and hear your their arguments if you can rebut each of their arguments then you can feel more confident in your investment and the same thing is should be true for your other views find the person who makes the best case for why you're wrong and then

[37:43](https://realalpha.app/v/T8nHLUlRGkg/?t=2263) either they convince you and you're wrong, or you can carefully rebut each of the various arguments. So it enables you to get to, I think it enables, the best hope we have to get to the truth is hearing from all sides and then sorting through who's got the better argument. Why were you so upset about the situation at Harvard?