# Indies have a better shot by avoiding crowded genres

Markdown copy of https://realalpha.app/s/indies-have-a-better-shot-by-avoiding-crowded-genres/ on Real Alpha, the best minutes from long interviews with the people building AI. Cite and link the page, not this copy.

- Speaker: [Tim Sweeney](https://realalpha.app/people/tim-sweeney/) · Tim Sweeney is founder and CEO of Epic Games. · Created Unreal Engine and co-created Fortnite, and has led Epic Games since founding it in 1991.
- Host: [Lex Fridman](https://realalpha.app/people/lex-fridman/) · Host, Lex Fridman Podcast · Robotics and AI researcher at MIT; started the show in 2018.
- Show: Lex Fridman Podcast
- Episode: [Tim Sweeney: Fortnite, Unreal Engine, and the Future of Gaming | Lex Fridman Podcast #467](https://realalpha.app/v/477qF6QNSvc/), Apr 30, 2025
- Moment: 29:53 to 34:05 of the episode (4 min), playing on https://realalpha.app/s/indies-have-a-better-shot-by-avoiding-crowded-genres/; the episode from there: https://realalpha.app/v/477qF6QNSvc/?t=1793

## Quote

> “A much better chance of success is in releasing something that hasn't been done before, **being really unique** and reaching an audience”
> — [Tim Sweeney](https://realalpha.app/people/tim-sweeney/) at [33:12](https://realalpha.app/v/477qF6QNSvc/?t=1992) · Lex Fridman Podcast

## Takeaways

1. Reduce friction so more people can try the game.
2. Build something distinct instead of competing in a crowded genre.
3. Grow through successive releases rather than betting on one hit.

## About this segment

Tim Sweeney explains how Epic used shareware and creator tools to stand apart, then argues indies should target underserved audiences. A series of smaller wins is likelier than one huge launch.

From “Tim Sweeney: Fortnite, Unreal Engine, and the Future of Gaming | Lex Fridman Podcast #467”, Apr 30, 2025. [Watch the full episode](https://realalpha.app/v/477qF6QNSvc/)

## Transcript

Transcribed by machine (Whisper) from the episode’s audio, so a word may be off here and there.

[30:00](https://realalpha.app/v/477qF6QNSvc/?t=1800) can you uh go back to that mindset and try to derive some wisdom and advice to those folks when you were just a solo developer maybe just a small group of people uh creating your early games that eventually became this uh huge gaming company but in the early days what what uh what were you going through what were the ups and downs uh what did it take to sort stay strong and persevere? Well, one of the critical things that Epic always worked hard to do was to make something different that nobody else was doing, and to try to satisfy a small audience rather than competing globally with the game juggernauts. Back in the 1990s, Epic was new, but Electronic Arts and Activision and the other big publishers had been around for a decade, and they were huge companies that had giant retail distribution networks. If I tried to

[30:57](https://realalpha.app/v/477qF6QNSvc/?t=1857) make a game and then convince them to publish it i i doubt i could have had a chance and i doubt uh that if even if i made a successful game that i would have made much money from it though they might have um and you know so they're really unique angle to epic then which shareware. And that was just the idea that if we distribute our game differently, then we can reach a much larger audience than these bigger competitors by virtue of this first episode of the game being free. It was kind of the advent of what later became free to play. And the logic of that is just as true now as it was then. If the thing is free and anybody can get into it, then it's kind of spread from friend to friend as people bring their real world friends into the games they're playing and uh you know have the opportunity to build up a community around that you know so the

[31:44](https://realalpha.app/v/477qF6QNSvc/?t=1904) other lesson there was minimize the friction of people getting into your game make it easier to get into and make it fun and i think the other well i was very fortunate zzt was a funny game it was not like much like any other game it was it had much worse graphics because it was all just text characters uh smiley faces and you know other greek letters and things participating in this game simulation they were kind of iconic representations of characters rather than real ones and you know this was decades into the age of real graphical games with interesting graphics and so it wasn't even trying to compete in that area but it was able to compete in a different area which is that you know it wasn't just my the three games i'd made and shipped as a trilogy that were successful and drove the success of the product it was the fact that i released an editor

[32:31](https://realalpha.app/v/477qF6QNSvc/?t=1951) and there's a whole community around it and you see that that that trend has repeated itself like Like there was, you know, ZZT was one of it. Before that, there was Bill Budge's pinball construction set. That was a 1980s Apple game that let users build their own pinball tables. And since then, you've had some of the world's most successful games follow that path. Like Minecraft, you can build your own stuff.

[32:51](https://realalpha.app/v/477qF6QNSvc/?t=1971) Roblox, you know, Fortnite Creative and Unreal Editor for Fortnite. You know, games that become platforms for other people to build stuff was a real opportunity. You know, I think the big thing to realize as for indie developers right now is like, There's massive, massive competition in every major genre. And it's very unlikely, unless you just happen to be the world's best at a particular thing, that you're going to release a game in an existing highly competitive genre and win.

[33:18](https://realalpha.app/v/477qF6QNSvc/?t=1998) A much better chance of success is in releasing something that hasn't been done before, being really unique and reaching an audience, even if big or medium size or small, reaching an audience and becoming really popular with that, making some money from it and being able to reinvest and then expand towards your ultimate dream. I think the one-shot go from idea to commercial success at massive scale is a lot less likely than the multi-step process of continually build better and better stuff over time until you get into a position of excellence. And constantly try to do something that others aren't doing. Yeah, that's right. Because if you look at every market, there's a few markets where