# Routine legal work may shift to fixed fees as advice gains value

Markdown copy of https://realalpha.app/s/routine-legal-work-may-shift-to-fixed-fees-as-advice-gains/ on Real Alpha, the best minutes from long interviews with the people building AI. Cite and link the page, not this copy.

- Speaker: [Winston Weinberg](https://realalpha.app/builders/winston-weinberg/) · Winston Weinberg is cofounder and CEO of Harvey. · Co-founded and leads Harvey, after working as an associate in securities and antitrust litigation at O'Melveny.
- Host: [Sonya Huang](https://realalpha.app/people/sonya-huang/) · Partner, Sequoia Capital · Works with OpenAI and Anthropic; co-wrote Sequoia's essay on generative AI.
- Host: [Pat Grady](https://realalpha.app/people/pat-grady/) · Co-steward, Sequoia Capital · Joined Sequoia in 2007; backed Snowflake, Zoom, ServiceNow and OpenAI.
- Show: Training Data
- Episode: [How AI Breakout Harvey is Transforming Legal Services, with CEO Winston Weinberg](https://realalpha.app/v/eXK-_yyQDMM/), Mar 11, 2025
- Moment: 32:13 to 35:12 of the episode (3 min), playing on https://realalpha.app/s/routine-legal-work-may-shift-to-fixed-fees-as-advice-gains/; the episode from there: https://realalpha.app/v/eXK-_yyQDMM/?t=1933

## Quote

> “But the insight, the value of like strategic advice, looking around corners, things like that, I would argue you can **charge more for that**.”
> — [Winston Weinberg](https://realalpha.app/builders/winston-weinberg/) at [34:53](https://realalpha.app/v/eXK-_yyQDMM/?t=2093) · Training Data

## Takeaways

1. Routine transaction and litigation work could move to fixed fees.
2. AI may reduce the cost of lower-end legal work.
3. Weinberg expects strategic advice to command higher prices.

## About this segment

Winston Weinberg expects AI to commoditize routine legal work while making strategic advice more valuable. He predicts fixed fees for commoditized work and higher prices for top-level counsel.

From “How AI Breakout Harvey is Transforming Legal Services, with CEO Winston Weinberg”, Mar 11, 2025. [Watch the full episode](https://realalpha.app/v/eXK-_yyQDMM/)

## Transcript

Transcribed by machine (Whisper) from the episode’s audio, so a word may be off here and there.

[32:15](https://realalpha.app/v/eXK-_yyQDMM/?t=1935) are going to keep getting better. You guys are going to keep doing valuable stuff on top of those models. What is the job of a lawyer end up being? What does the law firm end up looking like? Let's go like five, 10 years out. Yeah. So I'll start with the job of a lawyer because I just care a lot about this. I think that it goes back to actually what it used to be. So 50 years ago, So the role of the lawyer was an advisor. And a lot of what they did is look around corners, give a different angle of advice, et cetera. And we've actually seen this evolve to a degree where the CLO, chief legal officer title, is like pretty new. And really it's like most of the CLOs that I have met, they are a part of the business. Like they are business drivers. It is not just the no person, right?

[33:01](https://realalpha.app/v/eXK-_yyQDMM/?t=1981) And I think that that is going to happen. So I think what's going to happen over time is kind of this like lower end work is going to get somewhat commoditized and automated. But then the high level strategic work is actually going to be more valuable. Right. And so this is really good for a young lawyer. It's fantastic because, you know, most people, they go to law school and their goal is not to sit in a data room or do discovery or doc labeling for 10 years and then maybe go to trial once.

[33:29](https://realalpha.app/v/eXK-_yyQDMM/?t=2009) That's not what they want to do. Right. They want to give advice to clients. That is why you want to be a lawyer. They want to help people. Right. They want to help people or they want to win one or the other. Right. But sometimes both. That's what you want to do. And it very much is it's like close to like professional athletes where they want to be the best at their craft. And you get better by having more hands on strategic experience than you do just sitting in a data room forever. Right. And so I think that experience will be really good.

[33:56](https://realalpha.app/v/eXK-_yyQDMM/?t=2036) The law firm, I think there will be a lot of transitions in how law firms operate. So, I mean, I now am a client. Like, I use a lot of law firms, right? And one thing that I've always got annoyed with is the really high billable hours for very low-end work, like looking at, you know, whether this change of control clause was triggered or not, things like that, right? And as a customer... That can be annoying. Right. But actually, for the high end strategy of like, how should I go about buying this business? How should I think about restructuring this part of my org? Things like that. I would pay more than you pay the best lawyers on Earth right now. Like the delta between a junior associate and the best partner on Earth is like three or four X. Right. Which actually doesn't make sense to me. And so I think what will end up happening is there will be a lot of

[34:49](https://realalpha.app/v/eXK-_yyQDMM/?t=2089) fixed fees for kind of the part of a transaction, the part of a litigation that is somewhat more commoditized. But the insight, the value of like strategic advice, looking around corners, things like that, I would argue you can charge more for that. I know part of your mission is related to providing better access to justice. What does that mean to you? And kind of draw the