# Standalone AI models may need a larger platform to compete

Markdown copy of https://realalpha.app/s/standalone-ai-models-may-need-a-larger-platform-to-compete/ on Real Alpha, the best minutes from long interviews with the people building AI. Cite and link the page, not this copy.

- Speaker: [Dan Ives](https://realalpha.app/people/dan-ives/) · Dan Ives is a tech analyst at Wedbush Securities. · Built a globally recognized technology research franchise, covering software and broader technology markets for over 25 years.
- Host: [Steve Eisman](https://realalpha.app/people/steve-eisman/)
- Show: The Real Eisman Playbook
- Episode: [The AI Revolution: Winners, Losers, & The Future of Tech | The Real Eisman Playbook Episode 27](https://realalpha.app/v/PT6payqqvuk/), Sep 29, 2025
- Moment: 19:20 to 23:07 of the episode (4 min), playing on https://realalpha.app/s/standalone-ai-models-may-need-a-larger-platform-to-compete/; the episode from there: https://realalpha.app/v/PT6payqqvuk/?t=1160

## Quote

> “you **cannot sustain** in this next stage just being a model-driven company.”
> — [Dan Ives](https://realalpha.app/people/dan-ives/) at [20:40](https://realalpha.app/v/PT6payqqvuk/?t=1240) · The Real Eisman Playbook

## Takeaways

1. He sees ChatGPT as years ahead on scale and capital.
2. He says a model alone may not sustain Perplexity's position.
3. He expects Gemini to rise as Google gains access to Apple's base.

## About this segment

Dan Ives ranks ChatGPT and Perplexity ahead of other consumer models, but says standalone models need data or a larger platform. He expects Gemini to rise as Google and Apple deepen ties after the DOJ ruling.

From “The AI Revolution: Winners, Losers, & The Future of Tech | The Real Eisman Playbook Episode 27”, Sep 29, 2025. [Watch the full episode](https://realalpha.app/v/PT6payqqvuk/)

## Transcript

Transcribed by machine (Whisper) from the episode’s audio, so a word may be off here and there.

[19:33](https://realalpha.app/v/PT6payqqvuk/?t=1173) So let's talk about for a second. There are a lot of different OpenAI companies. There's ChatGPT, there's Perplexity, there's Gemini. Is there an obvious better one at this point? I think ChatGPT is playing a different game just because OpenAI. I mean, first of all, they're years ahead. The scale is at a total different level. and then ultimately it's a very similar to NVIDIA then eventually you start to build chips you build out the ecosystem like they have massive capital so it's a capital game too when you look at perplexity perplexity is an unbelievable model which is google's so so when you look at google's i remember google basically you know they have their own sort of proprietary model but the main one is perplexity chat gpt i view as kind of the the top two top two when you look at perplexity

[20:29](https://realalpha.app/v/PT6payqqvuk/?t=1229) the issue perplexity is like you can't be a standalone just as the model because the value fundamentally is really in the data like i'd argue like palantir it's data they don't have a model It's all data-driven. That's why perplexity's issue is going to be eventually they're going to have to find someone to get married with because you cannot sustain in this next stage just being a model-driven company.

[20:59](https://realalpha.app/v/PT6payqqvuk/?t=1259) So the top ones now you think are ChatGPT and perplexity. I think it's ChatGPT and perplexity and everyone else is almost playing a commoditized sort of game. When you look at Gemini in terms of Google, that's the one where they're going to significantly build that up. And I think Gemini ultimately is going to turn into that number three and eventually number two. And that's why when it comes to Apple, when they bet on it, they'll bet on Google for Gemini in terms of that AI piece.

[21:28](https://realalpha.app/v/PT6payqqvuk/?t=1288) But that's why Google needs Apple because you need the biggest install base in the world in terms of that. So that relationship you think will just deepen. But they couldn't do it with DOJ because when DOJ was there, that's why it's like, okay, stay out. They couldn't even testify. Just for our viewers, so the Department of Justice sued Google. Google pays Apple $20 billion a year to its default. And what you're saying is while the case was going on, that relationship had to be kind of a little bit arm's lengthy.

[22:02](https://realalpha.app/v/PT6payqqvuk/?t=1322) Arm's length. And now that it was interesting, you know, I read part of the judge. His opinion, it was pretty clear that if we were talking a year and a half ago and you're reading what the judge was saying and you owned Google, you're like pulling, you're pulling your hair out because you go, this guy's coming down hard. He's going to make them sell Chrome. He's going to make them do this. He's going to put them in handcuffs.

[22:22](https://realalpha.app/v/PT6payqqvuk/?t=1342) And then basically while he's writing his decision, the world changed. And he says, OK, I really can't do anything here. AI changed again. Saved Google from getting broken up. Right. Right. That's the, like, that's the crazy, like, when you actually start to put it together, that's essentially what's happened. While he's writing his opinion. While he's writing the opinion. Right. And that's why it came down to, like, DOJ had a very good case.

[22:47](https://realalpha.app/v/PT6payqqvuk/?t=1367) Without question. So, and the amount of effort spent on that case is unbelievable, but it came down to AI, it changed the whole game for them. Right.