# Time-based AI rewards can drive app engagement loops

Markdown copy of https://realalpha.app/s/time-based-ai-rewards-can-drive-app-engagement-loops/ on Real Alpha, the best minutes from long interviews with the people building AI. Cite and link the page, not this copy.

- Speaker: [Chamath Palihapitiya](https://realalpha.app/people/chamath-palihapitiya/) (Host) · Founder & CEO, Social Capital · Led Facebook's growth team; his firm backed Slack and AI chipmaker Groq.
- Host: [Jason Calacanis](https://realalpha.app/people/jason-calacanis/) · Founder & CEO, LAUNCH · Early Uber angel; sold Weblogs Inc. to AOL; hosts This Week in Startups.
- Host: [David Sacks](https://realalpha.app/people/david-sacks/) · Co-founder & partner, Craft Ventures · PayPal's first COO, founded Yammer; White House AI & crypto czar 2025–26.
- Host: [David Friedberg](https://realalpha.app/people/david-friedberg/) · CEO, Ohalo · Founded The Climate Corporation, sold to Monsanto for about $1.1B in 2013.
- Show: All-In
- Episode: [Meta's Dina Powell McCormick: The Case for Data Centers, Backlash, AI Job Boom & Meta’s Future](https://realalpha.app/v/qp2IbgJ5Z-8/), Sep 17, 2026
- Moment: 33:11 to 35:27 of the episode (2 min), playing on https://realalpha.app/s/time-based-ai-rewards-can-drive-app-engagement-loops/; the episode from there: https://realalpha.app/v/qp2IbgJ5Z-8/?t=1991

## Quote

> “and you add the **reward function being time**, all these apps will proliferate.”
> — [Chamath Palihapitiya](https://realalpha.app/people/chamath-palihapitiya/) at [34:48](https://realalpha.app/v/qp2IbgJ5Z-8/?t=2088) · All-In

## Takeaways

1. Chamath says time spent as a reward can intensify engagement.
2. A hard usage threshold can interrupt the loop.
3. The panel frames engagement as a product-design choice.

## About this segment

The panel connects recursive self-improvement to product engagement: if time spent is the reward, an app keeps pushing for more use. They argue companies can set a usage threshold and shut the product off.

From “Meta's Dina Powell McCormick: The Case for Data Centers, Backlash, AI Job Boom & Meta’s Future”, Sep 17, 2026. [Watch the full episode](https://realalpha.app/v/qp2IbgJ5Z-8/)

## Transcript

Transcribed by machine (Whisper) from the episode’s audio, so a word may be off here and there.

[33:16](https://realalpha.app/v/qp2IbgJ5Z-8/?t=1996) But look, I think that they have reached a resolution that I think is net beneficial, and I like the new defaults. And ultimately, this is about parental control. Parents should choose what apps their kids use and for how long. It should not be the government doing that. It should be the parents. And we should just make it as easy as possible for the parents to do it. And in my view, the only reason to do these new defaults is because of the whack-a-mole problem.

[33:44](https://realalpha.app/v/qp2IbgJ5Z-8/?t=2024) It is sometimes difficult for the parents to figure out how to control this stuff. I'm glad we're having this discussion. I think the issue for me has been the industry got very addicted to gamification and designing products to be addicting and increasing time spent on app was in fact internally what Facebook was focused on the challenge is you know you can be too good at something and I think Facebook along with YouTube and their algorithm we're just too good at addicting people to it whether they're adults or kids and I will commend you even if it was late as an organization in doing the right thing now and then leading the other organizations to do the right thing let me build on what you're saying with the statement um and we satya talked about this i think jensen will talk about it elon

[34:29](https://realalpha.app/v/qp2IbgJ5Z-8/?t=2069) will talk about it but we are you're going to hear this word rsi over and over over over the next 18 months recursive self-improvement which is this idea that if you define a function a reward function for an ai and let it go it's going to self-improve so to your point jason anything whether it's, you know, World of Warcraft or Angry Birds or whatever app, you put it into an RSI loop and you add the reward function being time, all these apps will proliferate. Microsoft Word will keep you there for nine hours if it can. So unless companies make a decision, like you guys, to say here's a threshold and beyond this threshold we're just going to turn it off, it's going to be kind of turtles all the way down. Yeah, which was my point, is how does it inform product decisions going forward. You've got this incredible new product, Muse. You're in the mix on the bots.

[35:18](https://realalpha.app/v/qp2IbgJ5Z-8/?t=2118) But again, I think the leadership and challenging the other organizations is what I will give you