# Waymo leads, but scaling remains a major challenge

Markdown copy of https://realalpha.app/s/waymo-leads-but-scaling-remains-a-major-challenge/ on Real Alpha, the best minutes from long interviews with the people building AI. Cite and link the page, not this copy.

- Speaker: [Travis Kalanick](https://realalpha.app/builders/travis-kalanick/) · CEO, Atoms · Built Uber and now leads Atoms, applying industrial AI and specialized robotics to automate food, mining and transport.
- Host: [Chamath Palihapitiya](https://realalpha.app/people/chamath-palihapitiya/) · Founder & CEO, Social Capital · Led Facebook's growth team; his firm backed Slack and AI chipmaker Groq.
- Host: [Jason Calacanis](https://realalpha.app/people/jason-calacanis/) · Founder & CEO, LAUNCH · Early Uber angel; sold Weblogs Inc. to AOL; hosts This Week in Startups.
- Host: [David Sacks](https://realalpha.app/people/david-sacks/) · Co-founder & partner, Craft Ventures · PayPal's first COO, founded Yammer; White House AI & crypto czar 2025–26.
- Host: [David Friedberg](https://realalpha.app/people/david-friedberg/) · CEO, Ohalo · Founded The Climate Corporation, sold to Monsanto for about $1.1B in 2013.
- Show: All-In
- Episode: [Two Legendary Founders: Travis Kalanick & Michael Dell Live from Austin, Texas](https://realalpha.app/v/9y7TTU1jIvk/), Mar 17, 2026
- Moment: 10:53 to 13:56 of the episode (3 min), playing on https://realalpha.app/s/waymo-leads-but-scaling-remains-a-major-challenge/; the episode from there: https://realalpha.app/v/9y7TTU1jIvk/?t=653

## Quote

> “look i think waymo obviously is ahead the existence proof is there their issue is **manufacturing and scale**”
> — [Travis Kalanick](https://realalpha.app/builders/travis-kalanick/) at [11:30](https://realalpha.app/v/9y7TTU1jIvk/?t=690) · All-In

## Takeaways

1. Travis sees Waymo as the current leader.
2. He names manufacturing and scale as Waymo's key challenges.
3. He says the timing of a physical AI breakthrough is uncertain.

## About this segment

Travis Kalanick sees Waymo as the current leader, with manufacturing and scale as constraints; he describes Tesla's path as much harder. A ChatGPT-like leap for physical AI remains an open question.

From “Two Legendary Founders: Travis Kalanick & Michael Dell Live from Austin, Texas”, Mar 17, 2026. [Watch the full episode](https://realalpha.app/v/9y7TTU1jIvk/)

## Transcript

Transcribed by machine (Whisper) from the episode’s audio, so a word may be off here and there.

[11:00](https://realalpha.app/v/9y7TTU1jIvk/?t=660) stuff and rumors that hey you might not be done with self-driving something that you were very early on how do you think about what you're seeing in the playing field of self-driving because my lord you know Waymo is making great progress Tesla's making great a winner like pick a winner between Tesla Tesla Waymo uber or like it might even be the collection uber seems to be building a network of stuff yeah i mean the number of pick a winner the number of players in this space is crazy now right like yeah look there's i think there's more noise if there's more bark than there is bite right now um look i think waymo obviously is ahead the existence proof is there their issue is manufacturing and scale um and urgency and fierceness like let's come on let's win let's go yeah you know uber had an autonomy project back in the day so and they have a different

[11:57](https://realalpha.app/v/9y7TTU1jIvk/?t=717) strategy these days i haven't been there for a while so But the, but the point is, is that you, so you got Waymo, then you've got Tesla fundamentals, science, hard mode times a hundred. And the question is, do they get there in what time scale? If, if they, and like, honestly, everybody's like, could happen tomorrow, could happen in five years. and i think that it's like when does the chat gpt moment happen for vision is basically the let's call it vision without other sensors so super inspiring but like what's the timeline on it yeah um those are the base this is basically the and then there's a lot of other little guys that don't really have the stuff i believe yet there's nobody standing out just yet of of the others do you think we're at a point now like obviously now that you're getting into more of

[12:55](https://realalpha.app/v/9y7TTU1jIvk/?t=775) these kind of autonomous systems that move around like do we have these vision language action models tuned and ready for prime time there's there's been a conversation like who's going to have the android the operating system for vision language action where i can use my voice tell it to do something and it knows what i'm saying and then it identifies the objects and does the thing in the physical world do those models exist today or there's still work and is that like a google os or like where does that os come from look i think there's a there this is an area of a lot of energy a mix of research and implementation i think there's a lot of hope and interesting stuff i mean the high level is we all remember what happened when you use chat gpt 3.5 and you're like holy yeah it's legit whoa and then it went to four and you're like okay like some stuff just

[13:47](https://realalpha.app/v/9y7TTU1jIvk/?t=827) changed the world just changed and i can sort of connect some dots and getting real