# $13B Lovable Co-Founder: Build a Profitable AI Product From Scratch in 30 Minutes Markdown copy of https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/ on Real Alpha, the best minutes from long interviews with the people building AI. Cite and link the page, not this copy. Anton Osika says AI makes building easier, so founders should focus on creative ideas and customer problems people will pay to solve. - Show: Silicon Valley Girl - Hosts: [Marina Mogilko](https://realalpha.app/people/marina-mogilko/) - Guest: [Anton Osika](https://realalpha.app/builders/anton-osika/) is cofounder of Lovable. - Published: Sep 22, 2026 - Length: 33 min ## The best minutes - [13:05](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=785) [Turn a simple product into a business with service and sales](https://realalpha.app/s/turn-a-simple-product-into-a-business-with-service-and-sales/) (5 min) - [1:38](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=98) [Break a big problem into parts you can test](https://realalpha.app/s/break-a-big-problem-into-parts-you-can-test/) (3 min) - [24:56](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1496) [Find the bottleneck before you abandon an idea](https://realalpha.app/s/find-the-bottleneck-before-you-abandon-an-idea/) (3 min) ## Also worth watching - [21:46](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1306) [Most everyday software fits Lovable, but global scale does not](https://realalpha.app/s/most-everyday-software-fits-lovable-but-global-scale-does/) (4 min) Skip the live website redesign and brand-deal inbox demos, the sponsor read, and the closing launch checklist. ## Summary Osika runs Lovable, a platform for building apps without code. The episode’s introduction says the company is valued at $13 billion, apps built on Lovable get nearly a billion visits each month, and more than a third of people building businesses on it are already making money. Osika argues that AI tools make software execution easier, so founders should focus on creativity and problems they understand firsthand. He recommends testing ideas with prospective customers, getting people to pay, and diagnosing why a product is not working before deciding whether to persist or move on. During a live demo, he and Marina Mogilko build a brand-deal intake tool and discuss connecting it to email, payments, and other business systems. Osika says founders should test their product, check that customers return, and then find effective ways to reach more people like them. ### Minute by minute - [0:46](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=46) **Vibe coding no longer fits real businesses.** Osika says vibe coding may work for demos, but people now run businesses on Lovable. He points to Sabrine’s Plink, a startup addressing trust in dating that has reached thousands of dollars in revenue. - [1:38](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=98) **Manual work reveals what to automate.** Osika recommends doing a task manually first, then breaking it into testable pieces before automating it. He says Lovable’s customer data shows most users have more than 11 years of professional experience and are close to problems they previously could not solve. - [4:00](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=240) **Pair products with real-world services.** Osika says he would look for opportunities that combine a product with a real-world service, such as helping people with groceries or home care. He also recommends that knowledge workers build an agent for themselves to understand how agents work. - [6:21](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=381) **Apps and agents are converging.** Osika says apps suit work that needs data and a graphical interface, while Lovable’s agent integrations connect apps to agent tools. In a live demo, he and Mogilko redesign her website and start building an AI-ranked form for brand-deal inquiries. - [13:05](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=785) **A service can set a product apart.** Osika says Damien’s Surrealism World does more than generate dog images: it sends customers a portrait and combines the site, payments, and marketing into a service. He argues that packaging new capabilities into a solution customers care about can create a business. - [15:27](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=927) **Talk to customers before pricing.** Osika recommends speaking with 10 potential customers, asking about their needs, and trying to get one to pay. He says 10 is a good starting point and advises against making a product free or too cheap, because payment shows that customers care. - [17:15](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1035) **Start with a problem you know.** Osika says products can start with a problem the founder experiences personally. He says Lovable began with his frustration that software was too hard to build, then he and Mogilko refine her brand-deal tool and discuss improving her website for AI search. - [21:46](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1306) **Connect tools into a business hub.** Osika says Lovable can handle data, email, payments, hosting, and connections to other tools; Mogilko considers linking company emails and projects in one hub. He says users can start free with daily credits, the default paid plan is $25 per month, and Facebook-scale traffic is beyond the platform’s current reach. - [24:56](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1496) **Creativity matters more as building gets easier.** Osika says creativity becomes a key differentiator as execution gets easier. He recommends refining ideas by building and testing them, then identifying the bottleneck—such as customer research, marketing, or product bugs—to decide whether to continue. - [27:57](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1677) **Build businesses, not just code.** Osika says Lovable focuses on helping customers create and run businesses rather than only generating code, and that the field is still early. Looking ahead, he expects running a business to cost less and says business-building will remain a way to develop skills and create value. - [30:02](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1802) **Test and secure the product before launch.** Osika recommends asking Lovable to test the app end to end and run a security scan before publishing it. In the demo, the tool submits a test pitch, checks the email flow, and reports that it found no errors. - [31:32](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1892) **Validate, retain, then find more customers.** Osika’s launch plan starts with a problem the founder or someone close to them experiences, then finding people willing to pay for a solution. He says founders should check that customers return, identify where similar customers discover products, and explain what makes their product distinctive. ## Transcript Silicon Valley Girl, hosted by Marina Mogilko, with Anton Osika. Transcribed by machine (Whisper) from the episode’s audio, so a word may be off here and there. Where the podcast’s audio and the video part ways, some times are a minute or so off. [0:00](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=0) You're abandoning the word vibe coding. Yeah, vibe works for demo, but we're way past that. You don't build your company on vibes. This is Anton Osika. He launched Lovable, where anyone can build an app without code. Less than two years later, the company is worth $13 billion. Together, apps built on Lovable now get nearly a billion visits every month. And more than a third of the people building businesses on the platform are already making money. Like I've seen those dogs built on Lovable. $300,000 a month? Yes. Why? How is that a business idea? I think the creativity is the biggest differentiator as the execution becomes easier. [0:38](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=38) What everyone in the knowledge worker space should be building for yourself to make their lives easier. Everyone should build an agent for themselves. Is it okay if I have to do the prompt here? Please, yeah. I want to see your prompt. When I tried Vibe coding, there were so many errors even a year ago. Like this QA was all manual, you would run into bugs. now you said you're abandoning the word vibe coding yeah vibe works for demo but we're way past that you don't build your company on vibes and people are running their businesses on our platform and i have these amazing founders sabrine she's building a startup called plink and she she wanted to solve a real problem that she saw in the world which is that can i trust this person I'm dating. And she's been able to reach thousands of dollars in revenue on something that's just for social good. And the beautiful thing that I think it comes back to is that it used to be so hard to build a software and it used to be a lot of overhead to run your business. And you can now simplify a lot of those things. And that's not something you do on Vibes. It's something you do on a serious platform. [1:51](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=111) And when you think about a problem that you're solving, do you have a framework in your head? how do you solve a problem that seems kind of big? Do you separate it into tasks? Because, okay, like I want to build this content machine, for example, I don't know. When you have a problem that you want to automate, what is your thinking process of how to do it step-by-step and whether some of the problems are worth automating and some not? [2:13](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=133) **Anton Osika:** I think it's usually good to just do things manually and then be systematic about, okay, how can I break this down into pieces that I can test [2:23](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=143) and see if I can get value from if something is broken that replicates the thing I used to do manually. If you're over-engineering or you're overly ambitious from the get-go, then you might end up being very close, but there's some small part somewhere that doesn't work in the way that you thought it would work or your solution wasn't the right one. And you want to avoid that. You want to iterate towards perfection. So do you think, because doers are becoming entrepreneurs, Do you think people who are day-to-day working on some boring tasks are becoming the best position for the next three years to become entrepreneurs? [2:59](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=179) We're seeing from our customer data that most people on our platform, they have more than 11 years of professional experience. And from that, they've become very close to a problem, that they've been frustrated that they can't solve with the skills that they had at the time. And now the person who's closest to the problem, they can actually go out and solve that problem. And that's one of the biggest unlocks of these new technologies. Do you see that group of people generating the most money with Lovable? For most of our customers, it's people who are building and they're already generating revenue themselves or they're trucking towards and they're building a business towards generating revenue. [3:43](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=223) Most of them have experience. There's also a lot of young people who are building companies, as you might know, in this day and age. And that also often is connected with having advantages of seeing things with fresh eyes for the first time if you're a younger person. But we're seeing people. across the spectrum, across the entire world, every continent and every country, building very serious things on the platform. Love it. If someone's watching and they're like, okay, this sounds incredible, I want to build something. Can you give me some ideas? What do you think are the top three opportunities to build these days? [4:15](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=255) I think what you want to do is you want to solve a problem that is not just on the internet, but you usually want to build something connected to the real world a combination of a service and the product and those two things together can actually make it really good this is the type of direction that i would be going if i was starting a business myself this day so it's even something that hasn't existed i don't think you need to start something that is completely new either you can take a fresh take on something you can go out and talk to people who aren't yet adopting a solution that exists somewhere and see how can I make it so exciting for them that they want to adopt it. It could be something in how they get their groceries or how they get things in their home taken care of. And you can personalize it for them if you're an entrepreneur with a hustler mentality. Finding a good idea is the first step. The next one is growing it into something bigger. I love learning how successful founders think and steal a lot of it for my own work. The best cases go into my newsletter. It's called Future Proof, so you can repeat them yourself. In my recent issue, I show how the top founders use AI for everyday tasks. There are rules and prompts step by step, plus a bonus. The [5:36](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=336) one prompt I run every single month that helps me with my productivity. Get it right now? The link us down below. Do you have any ideas what everyone in the knowledge worker space should be building for yourself to make their lives easier? I think everyone should build an agent for themselves. And if you do it from scratch or you use AI to build it for you from scratch, then you get a better understanding for how does an agent work? Because you can ask, how did you implement building this agent? So I think that's something we could build today. I also wanted to actually make a refresh on your personal website if you wouldn't mind oh please let's do it absolutely um there was a specific challenge i heard about which is how you handle everyone who wants to talk to you and that send you emails yeah yeah and building an app specifically that helps sort that out with help of ai by the way let me ask quickly when do you build an agent when do you build an app I think everything that needs data is an app. [6:49](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=409) And then if you want to oversee what is in the data and have some pieces that visualizes what this app does, then you, of course, want a graphical user interface. A recent thing we've added to Lovable is that for every single app, you can connect that to any agent harness. It's called agent integrations. And then it's almost like the data that you're talking to is a part of the agent. You can use Lovable as that agent, you can use Cloval, chat, whatever. So these things are actually, I would say, merging, depending on how you like to think about it. So Marina, I said I really wanted to create a new version of your website. [7:32](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=452) Yeah, and you know what I wanted to just, I don't know if Lovable is going to do it automatically. It looks the way it looks. It used to be much more stylish, but then we redid it for AEO, GEO, whatever it is. And we didn't really pay attention to design. And we just paid attention to being visible by chatbots and agents. So that's why it looks like that. There is a primitive in Lovable to optimize for AEO and SEO. Do I need to say it to Lovable? We'll first make it look good and then we'll optimize it for AEO, okay? All right. Okay, so tell me something about what you care about with your website in terms of the brand and the aesthetics. [8:30](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=510) Absolutely. So Silicon Valley Girl is a podcast that helps people. see this bridge between them and Silicon Valley, because for a lot of people, Silicon Valley is where weird stuff happens, AI, whatever it is. My goal is to translate what that AI means for their daily lives. For an entrepreneur, that means building things faster. For a mom, that means managing household with some agents, and maybe in 10 years, having a robot that does the laundry. For someone who's an artist, that means just managing the whole production flow with AI. And I interview founders and scientists who are building those tools and ask them to show me what I can do today to feel the magic of AI. [9:38](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=578) Great. Let's see if we can make a new version of the website based on that. Just so that it has something to reference, I think we can put in the URL to the current website. Now what Lovable is going to do is that it's going to research your current website. Look at how it looks, look at how it's implemented, and then it might, depending on how you want to use it, ask you some clarifying questions, or it will just give you the first new version that we can look at and iterate from there if we don't think it's perfect yet. Can I see the prompting that's going on there? Yeah, you can click and see what's happening under the hood. [10:34](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=634) Here are the details of how it's thinking through finding the current website that you have today to be able to compare with that one. so the color grid we have white red black and i was thinking we can go back to your original problem statement build that and then we get back to see how the first how this new website the email there are so many different types of queries that come to our email so my initial thought was like an overview was going on categorized ai intelligence to tell me oh this was actually major is it okay if i do the prompt here please yeah i want to see your prompt okay Okay, so let me tell you what I heard you say, and I'll have a lovable listening. [11:25](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=685) So you want a lead capture form for Silicon Valley Girl, and anyone should be able to reach out to you about different types of opportunities. And then you and your team, they should be able to try it and see all the opportunities, sorted by how relevant an AI thinks these are, with a proposed answer. and then when they are maybe let the choose what the ai proposed or they do some edits they can send back the answer to the person who reached out is that correct yeah the question is should it be inside the email like because we already have our email listed on several websites or should do you think we should now just list the website so that they fill in the form because for me yeah you could take care of the involved emails as well that's a great question let's start let's start with this and then we can use the same flow and connect and read the emails as well later on so we can do both okay what kind of opportunities should people be able to submit the thing is so when i'm thinking about the forums on the website i want to be it to be first of all as free flowing as possible to give people some freedom just write our own i think in the interest of time let's tell tell lovable be as fast as possible at implementing this as well shall i [12:44](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=764) just write it down yeah so it's just possible and uh don't limit to any use case right yeah so we'll let it build yeah now we can just let it build it's gonna take a few minutes you're like me you're like what's happening here oh yeah it copied my style really well lavabo keeps asking you which which design you prefer and you can zoom in on them if you want to or just pick the one you prefer i think i like this one a lot let's do it yeah so this like a knowledge worker can just built for themselves what separates something like this that is very personal from a business that can be built on lovable how do you distinguish what idea is going to make you money like i've seen those dogs built on lovable i i could not believe when my team was like have you seen this website the paintings you order with the dog Thank you very much. [13:29](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=809) three hundred thousand dollars a month yes why like on dog paintings explain explain it to me how is that a business idea so the the founder he's obviously uh very curious and creative and he when he sets his mind to something he goes through with it i think that's the main differentiator if you can build a serious business on this platform or if you can just build a tool for yourself both are good outcomes but for building building that business um then it's it usually comes down to how hard are you going to work to make this business work and are you going to be able to make people who would be your customers care about you and understand that this is something exciting that they want to be a part of well so when i'm looking at a lot of businesses as an entrepreneur myself i'm like okay even when i have ideas i tell myself especially if it's like a dog-like idea like oh i'll make a dog look like a painting uh this can be done with chat gpt with an easy prompt right how do i tell myself as an entrepreneur to keep pushing like i don't know if you talk to that guy because he's i think the best example of it because i tried and i could do the same similar thing with chat gpt how do you not stop when you know chat gpt uh claude can do this [14:47](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=887) Yeah, so Damien, who built this Surrealism World website, he doesn't just create the images for the dog. He sends it home to you as a portrait. [15:00](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=900) **Anton Osika:** And I think entrepreneurship is usually about combining those new discoveries into a service or a solution that hasn't been built before. [15:11](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=911) That's when you can really make people care about it. And that's what he did, combining the website, the payments, and somehow finding marketing the web service, of course. And this is amazing because he added this extra feature and turns out there is a market for it. So how do you, first of all, how do you know there is a market for it? And how do you price it right? Even when it comes to lovable, right? When it comes to pricing, how do you think about it? And there are different approaches. You can be just your home in your garage, but the most reliable and I think fastest way to learn about your customers, which is key, is to get in front of 10 customers or potential customers and tell them about what you're thinking of building and actually dig into what they care about. [15:58](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=958) Just ask a lot of questions from your customers, like what's the pain that you're experiencing, what are the interests that you're excited about? And then going in front of 10 customers and try to make one of them actually buy and pay for what you're building. Is that what you do as well with Laval? Do you still talk to 10 people before you build a new feature? That's what we try to do, yes. That's what the product team tries to do. And you think 10 is a good number? I think 10 is a good starting point, yes. And then in terms of pricing, I think you should get 10 really big fans of your product. [16:40](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1000) And one way to know that they are really big fans is to not make it too cheap and not make it free. Because it's only if they actually pay that you know that this is something they really care about. You introduce that friction to know that they really like the product. And then you should hope that they spread the word and make them feel special and make them spread the word about the product that they are actually paying their hard-earned money for buying and then hopefully you get more customers from them and over time figure out how to scale that distribution. Yeah, and also knowing how big it can get because if you have a lot of ambition, sometimes you think, oh, maybe this is a too small problem to solve or do you think a good entrepreneur starts with a very small problem and then finds a will to scale it? [17:38](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1058) I think it comes from both sides. Some of the most authentic products, I think they start with a problem for yourself. I was to some extent passionate. It's about building Lovable because I felt that there's so many ideas, both from me and people around me, that will never come to fruition because of how hard it used to be to build software. And that's what we started, and being able to give anyone who's really close to the problems and who have that ambition and ideas, the tools to do it, that's what our mission remains to this date. Okay, let's see what it's building for us. This is building work with Marina brand deals. [18:07](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1087) Anything, tell us your name, what's it about, budget or timeline. I like it. We can polish the UI later, but just from your point of view, the first reaction, what do you think about this? I think it's great. Cool. I like that it's also opportunity. So it like filters for serious requests. Let's test it out with some example data. Wow. Only such opportunities. Okay, what am I proposing? do you want to sponsor the podcast sponsor yes sponsor pod okay send opportunity and then here we can see the inbox now right yes great well i'd love to see the budget right here so i can okay let me show you how you can iterate a bit on the on the visuals okay by creating a new draft so what you would do then is you go up and you click new draft at the at the top and under the title here right correct oh so it's going to create the same version but looking different yeah and then we can choose which one we prefer and then we can use the microphone again and say hey let's improve the styling a bit you can maybe find marina's beehive website and take the branding from there which i think looks pretty good and let's say while we're iterating on the branding we should put your face on there so if you just search for your name taking a copy of [19:27](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1167) photo we can paste it back into lovable and then we can um ask you to put on your face that in a way that makes it feel more personal great photo to this on yeah my signature oops and we just put it here in you can just drag it in from up there i think add it to branding yeah add it at the top to the top i wonder like will it look stylish enough i think it will understand that this is a photo of your face. And we will add it to the top. Photo was added. I think it looks better. Do you want to check if we also want to add the new branding, if we like that one, by going back to the other draft? Ah, this is so much better. Yeah, great. We can also look at the website meanwhile. Do you want to look at it? I like that you're also multitasking. Yeah. [20:21](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1221) Okay, so we asked for a new take on your website. What do you think? I think it's great. I think it looks amazing. Question, is it geo and AO help to ask? That's a great question. Click on SEO and AI search. And here you can do a bunch of things. The thing that I think is the simplest thing to do is to just tell Lovable, hey, we want this geo optimized by doing a scan on how can we improve discoverability for AI agents. and Google. So these are example questions that you could do if you want the research. How can we differentiate more for a specific audience? But now Lavabolt is going to run your full SEO and AO. Can we make sure that the team receives an email when a request comes in and that people who submit the form get an email that it was submitted? I think it's fun with all this listening I know I have too many agents but it's Whisperflow and Granola same as me yeah because Granola is recording it's going to give me feedback on how I did on this podcast right after I have an agent that grabs the transcript and then gives me feedback I should have this in my meetings with Senka she's going to roast me yeah Actually, it's so much, because AI is more empathetic than my brain, for example, to me. [21:44](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1304) Empathetic? Empathetic. Yeah, it was like, Marina, you did well. It's okay. It's so nice to me. Yeah, you mixed this up, but it's fine. Next time you're going to remember, it just makes me feel better. Because if it's me, I'm just roasting myself. Okay. And here you can see some more of the primitives that is making lovable into a platform for you to run your company on. so you as you can obviously assume you can store data in there you can handle emails but you can also do things like payments connecting to your existing emails or connecting to any other tools that you might use you might for example want to get this posted in slack when there's a new email coming in yeah because now we have now that i'm thinking we have everything that's running like inside different AIs and projects if we connect all the emails all the corporate emails to this and make it a hub where you see all the brand deals and what's working like if we have email for producers that are working on a particular video and there is a brand deal like it all gets connected interesting so it's like building a back end for your business not just and this connective layer between the different things as well how much more expensive is this [22:57](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1377) versus using just I don't know cloud projects for running your business because like in terms of tokens for the building piece um it's very similar in terms of costs and what you get as well is which is going to be included for free is the hosting for the projects that you're using which are which is very scalable on the hosting side and you get these things like the analytics so you can use level for free every day with a [23:26](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1406) **Anton Osika:** certain amount of credits and then if you want to upgrade the default is 25 dollars per month [23:30](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1410) and how complicated can this setup be when i'm building something can you draw me a line where it stops being something that can be done on lovable and i have to hire a developer does it exist i think that line the line is probably moving right yeah the line is very much moving and it depends on how um how dedicated you are and how much of a creative problem solving person you are if you are if you're dedicated and curious and really want to learn these things then the line is very far out if you for example building facebook requires you to have a lot of load a lot of hundreds of thousands of customers at the same time and and do this globally that that is that is outside of the line but most of the software that i'm interacting with day to day You can build them in Lovable. [24:21](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1461) What about something that I built 12 years ago with the help of different developers, study broad booking platform? I think that's a great example. You can build it with Lovable? And the thing which I hear from our customers is that they are usually the ones who understand their users and their customers the best. So they're closest to the problem. And that's why you often end up with a very good, the polished very well thought out product compared to if you have very slow cycles where you have to hand off everything every few weeks i remember that yeah so so that's a big part of the advantage of on building on this platform and what we work really hard for is that it just works and you can focus on your customers and the product vision that you want you want to have And because ideas can be deployed that fast now, do you think ideas still matter these days? [25:16](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1516) Because remember how people used to say, idea doesn't matter because you have to build it. You have to deliver on it. The ideas are becoming more important. I think the creativity is the biggest differentiator as the execution becomes easier. and you can even if you're curious and smart about it you can figure out how do I make lovable run in the background and do work for me when I'm not there so that you can really focus on the next big idea for your business and lean into the creative parts. How do you develop your creativity? Any ideas? I love that question. Do you go to museums? Look at art? Being bored I know is good for creativity but I think every person has creativity within them and the best way to improve and increase your creativity is you know sophisticating it by trying to build and by taking your ideas and putting them to the test and when you're doing that feedback loop that's actually when you're the creativity that everyone has becomes more refined and more more applicable and you actually have more useful ideas and when you have so many ideas how do you like when do you stop and tell yourself this is what i'm going to work on just because in this world where it's easy to build ideas and you have so many ideas how do you select the one [26:44](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1604) that is really worth pursuing i still struggle with this so um so sometimes you want to really push through even though with you you realize that the problem was harder than you thought and sometimes you should say hold on with that idea I'm going to take the next idea and then I'm going to take the next idea until you find something that really works. The way to do it, I think it's just you learn skill to develop in terms of is this thing, how big can this thing become? And why isn't it working as I want it to work yet? Is it just me being out talking to more people? Is it me being better, have to be better at marketing? [27:25](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1645) Or is it that the product has some bugs and glitches that make people not retain? [27:30](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1650) **Anton Osika:** I think it's being good at spotting that bottleneck. Why is the idea not working yet? [27:36](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1656) That makes you become good at deciding, should I continue? Should I take the next idea? Yeah, and I also think the scale, because I read your story how you realized that you're going to build the last piece of software. I think when you have this major idea that's so transformative, it gives you more energy to try and pursue it, right? I think it's very important to lean into what gives you energy. And to me, that is to a large extent the people I surround myself with. And are there people that are giving you energy that you can work with? And then you can usually run through walls together to a completely different extent. [28:14](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1694) Totally. How do you think about competition? Do you ever have these thoughts like ChatGPT, Claude, they can build apps? I don't think so much about competition. The platform we're building is becoming this perfect place to run your business. And we're not doing code generation. We're doing this creation of businesses for our customers. And it's still extremely early days in this complete agent development. So we're naturally going to see a lot of companies like us continue to grow at this extremely rapid pace. And what do you tell yourself when it's so competitive? No, what we focus on is to look at what our customers are trying to do. [28:55](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1735) And how can we really make the best possible product and platform for them to reach their objectives, which is to build a business and then to run and operate that business and actually help them with growing your business as well. And I showed you there that you can make your website AO optimized. That's one of the pieces that makes it so that there's millions of visits to lovable apps. I think there's actually a billion visits every month to lovable applications. Yeah. Do you have any fears at all that when AGI comes, I don't know, models start building for themselves, like when you think about five to 10 years ahead? [29:29](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1769) I think we're going to be in a world where focusing on your career and making money is going to be less. It's important to many people, and it's more going to be focused on how am I a good person to those around me and to my community. But trying to build a business is still going to be one of the key ways of developing yourself, learn skill sets and creating valuable things for those around you. And what we're working towards is that the overhead and the cost of making a business run is going to be so low that there can be much, much more companies that exist. All right. Well, let's see what it's doing for my business now. And it's like a CRM for managing those, right? What's the 10? What's the 5? [30:15](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1815) We asked in the beginning for scoring them according to AI. Before we wrap this up, I have an idea in how we make sure it actually works. I would just tell Lovable, can you test this end to end, both submission and answering the email in the inbox? and then you can tell me what we need to check in our inboxes to verify that it worked and if you run into any problems. We're doing the end-to-end test. I just want to queue up and tell you something that I think is very important. And it's that we do a deep security scan to make sure this is ready to be published to the internet. Do you want to just ask for that? [30:51](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1851) Do a deep security scan? Yeah. And I just send it. Okay. We asked it to do an end-to-end test. It submitted a fake pitch. um it tells me to check my inboxes and it didn't find any errors so it does like qa it is some qa here and it said it has sent two emails brand deal sponsors are beautiful and then did it reply to the yeah that's what i want to see it did okay so here it actually decided to say yes to a collaboration nice but you can like ideally i just see before sending But that's great. Marina, as you can see, I love building things. Yeah. And I hope this is valuable to you. Totally. It's been fun to build together. [31:39](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1899) Thank you so much. Thank you. Let's wrap up with a step-by-step plan for someone who's launching a business with Lovable. So we talked about figuring out the idea. We did the whole demo coding or creating a platform. What are the next steps that they should be taking? The first thing is to have an idea. and I think you get that by taking something from your own life or from people you're close to that experience a problem and then you find your idea for how to solve that problem and you try to find a few people that are willing to pay for your solution and when they're actually willing to pay, that's a great sign that they care and they're excited about what you're doing but you still want to make sure that they keep coming back and they keep wanting to pay and it wasn't just done from excitement And when you've gone through those steps, that's one example of clear product market fit. And you should be then starting to think, what are the most effective ways for me to find more customers like this customer? And think about where are they? How do they find new products? And what do they care about? [32:45](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=1965) What is it that's unique about me that I can tell as a story to make those people care about this product and start scaling into a real business that makes serious money? Which is mostly social media, I guess, these days. The answer would be to the marketing question. I think there's this fun Twitter about that everyone, a carpenter from a small business owner to tech companies, they need to be on TikTok and creating reels. I don't know if that's true, but I think it's a fun meme. It is. Well, a lot of businesses are starting on social media. Thank you so much, Anton. That was very practical and hopefully we inspired a lot of people who are watching, or at least some people, to start and build something. [33:28](https://realalpha.app/v/KEAYPqQG2-M/?t=2008) I hope a lot of more people take the leap and they go and build.