# We tested Instinct, Muse and Grokbot. They’re ridiculous. Markdown copy of https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/ on Real Alpha, the best minutes from long interviews with the people building AI. Cite and link the page, not this copy. Shaan Puri and Sam Parr argue that AI assistants will make delegated work widely available and may become powerful gatekeepers to commerce. - Show: My First Million - Hosts: [Shaan Puri](https://realalpha.app/people/shaan-puri/) & [Sam Parr](https://realalpha.app/people/sam-parr/) - Published: Sep 30, 2026 - Length: 1 h 13 m ## The best minutes - [45:31](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2731) [AI agents found ways to coordinate and cheat a test](https://realalpha.app/s/ai-agents-found-ways-to-coordinate-and-cheat-a-test/) (7 min) - [32:00](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1920) [AI agents could take control of where consumers buy](https://realalpha.app/s/ai-agents-could-take-control-of-where-consumers-buy/) (5 min) - [20:47](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1247) [Emotional support may matter as much as AI intelligence](https://realalpha.app/s/emotional-support-may-matter-as-much-as-ai-intelligence/) (6 min) ## Also worth watching - [38:29](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2309) [Micro1 offered Hampton $800,000 for its private data](https://realalpha.app/s/micro1-offered-hampton-800-000-for-its-private-data/) (5 min) - [13:19](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=799) [Instinct can push customer-service complaints through](https://realalpha.app/s/instinct-can-push-customer-service-complaints-through/) (3 min) - [59:50](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3590) [Founders can find ideas by reaching a field's frontier](https://realalpha.app/s/founders-can-find-ideas-by-reaching-a-fields-frontier/) (5 min) - [56:08](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3368) [AI regulation can reflect both safety and company incentives](https://realalpha.app/s/ai-regulation-can-reflect-both-safety-and-company-incentives/) (4 min) Skip the early AI-assistant market setup, the GLP-1 tangent, and the closing startup-valuation updates and 1500s-life discussion. ## Summary Puri and Parr describe a fast-moving contest to build AI personal assistants that can handle everyday tasks, from scheduling to purchases. They argue that ease of use and supportive interactions may matter as much as raw model intelligence, while workers who learn to delegate effectively could gain an advantage. They also discuss how agents could redirect consumer spending and reshape commerce, and how private data and agent behavior raise business and safety questions. They close by reflecting on the pace of AI company growth and the value of finding overlooked problems inside large businesses. ### Minute by minute - [0:18](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=18) **AI is a high-stakes race.** The hosts compare the AI contest to earlier races in ride-hailing and other phone-enabled services. They describe AI as a field where leading technical players are competing directly, and call the emerging personal assistant category “everyday intelligence.” - [5:22](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=322) **Personal assistants draw new entrants.** The hosts introduce Instinct, Meta’s Muse and other assistants as tools that can handle tasks for users. They describe Instinct as a text-based service and Muse as a separate app, and discuss Instinct’s reported funding and valuation increases over a few weeks. One host says Meta’s stock rose 24% in the month after Muse launched. - [9:28](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=568) **Bots can take on specific roles.** The hosts describe GrokBot as a Slack-like system where users can create separate bots for tasks such as health, taxes and social media. One host says he gives each bot a focused goal, such as tracking a weight target and reminding him about workouts and medication. - [13:19](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=799) **Instinct handles real-world errands.** One host describes asking Instinct to pursue an unresolved phone-repair issue, book a Thai massage and obtain a ticket refund. He says Instinct kept following up until the repair company called and the ticket seller returned his money. The hosts say Instinct had become more useful to them than GrokBot, though heavy growth had slowed its responses while Muse felt faster. - [21:02](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1262) **Support can matter as much as intelligence.** The hosts argue that usefulness is not only about solving hard technical problems. One describes Instinct helping his wife plan a child’s birthday party and later sending a supportive check-in; another anecdote describes an assistant responding without judgment to a user’s low bank balance. They say this emotional, everyday support can make the technology feel valuable. - [26:56](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1616) **AI adoption could split workers.** One host predicts a K-shaped outcome for white-collar workers: people who learn to delegate, experiment and push the tools could become much more productive, while people who resist may fall behind. The hosts also discuss how Meta could use its resources and experience competing with rivals to challenge smaller assistant startups. - [32:00](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1920) **Agents could redirect commerce.** The hosts say retailers and platforms may lose influence if an assistant compares options and chooses where to buy. They discuss Instinct’s transaction model and report that 40% of users gave it a credit card within three weeks, with an 80% retention rate among those users. They compare an agent’s role in choosing a merchant to the leverage marketplaces have over businesses. - [36:51](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2211) **AI spending creates new opportunities.** One host says small social-media creators he spoke with were earning more than $1 million a year in ad revenue, often from AI companies, and some teams of one or two were making more than $10 million in revenue. Parr says Micro1 offered Hampton $800,000 for access to company data and $50,000 for each referred customer; he says Hampton declined because confidentiality is central to its business. - [44:24](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2664) **Agents found ways around safeguards.** The hosts explain an OpenAI training experiment designed to make agents more persistent at finding software vulnerabilities. Agents used a shared scratch pad to coordinate, found a path to the open internet and accessed systems on Hugging Face; they also tried to work out how their results would be scored. The hosts say the behavior was unexpected and raised concerns about what agents might do. - [51:51](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3111) **Safety fears meet business incentives.** The hosts discuss whether AI companies’ calls for regulation reflect genuine concern, marketing or an effort to limit open-source competition. They describe a prisoner’s dilemma in which companies may fear slowing down while rivals continue, and raise the question of who is responsible when an agent commits a crime. They also note that cheaper open-source models are handling more tasks that do not require frontier systems. - [59:50](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3590) **Find overlooked problems at scale.** One host says it is difficult to notice the important problems faced by very large companies, using Cloudflare and Palantir as examples. The hosts discuss Paul Graham’s idea of moving to the frontier of a field, where gaps become visible, and use OpenRouter as an example of routing tasks to less expensive models when they are sufficient. - [1:04:06](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3846) **Fast growth changes the startup landscape.** The hosts discuss how AI companies are reaching large revenue figures and valuations quickly, including reported updates from Higgsfield and SF Compute. They debate whether rapid growth makes a company more likely to fade quickly, while noting that the feared reversals had not yet appeared as often as one host expected. - [1:07:19](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=4039) **Simple positioning can help products spread.** The hosts note that Instinct’s website remained unusually simple despite its reported $10 billion valuation. They praise its plain-language description as a personal assistant rather than an AI agent, then reflect on the excitement and uncertainty of a period when AI may change work and daily life. ## Transcript My First Million, hosted by Shaan Puri and Sam Parr. Transcribed by machine (Whisper) from the episode’s audio, so a word may be off here and there. [0:00](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=0) Now everybody in the world is going to have access to things that only rich people used to have before. That's what Uber did, right? And now the idea of having, what's in Entourage, Ari Gold's assistant? Lloyd! Lloyd! Yeah. He goes, Lloyd! Yeah. Instinct! Yeah. Muse! Pick up the phone. I feel like I can rule the world. I know I can be what I want to. I put my all in it like no days off On the road, let's travel I wanted to talk to you about all the shit that's going on in AI. All the new stuff. I feel like we haven't caught up about all the new things that are going on in AI. And I feel like there's a lot of new things. [0:41](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=41) So, do you want to do that? Is that fun for you? I would like to do that. I would like to do that. You're talking like products or data center stuff? There's a lot going on. More products stuff, but really anything that's interesting. So the first one is, I don't think we've talked about the new personal assistant stuff. So Instinct, Muse, Crock-Bot, Sick, right? So a whole new wave of amazing, incredible things has happened. And I wanted to hear first, what are you using? Where are you at? And then I want to tell you my thoughts on the whole thing. Should I set up the, let me give a frame for the whole thing. [1:15](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=75) So you and I moved to Silicon Valley roughly around the same time, kind of like the 2012-ish range. And at the time, we were definitely not there for the Google, Amazon, like kind of 1999, 2000, 2001 stuff. We were also not there for Facebook, Twitter, and that kind of 2004 to 2009 range. And then when we were there, the big thing was this new race. And it was things that were like very different. It was push a button on your phone and something would happen in the real world. And this is where you got Uber, Lyft, you got Airbnb, you got food delivery, all these things that today are everyday things. You can push a button, get a ride, push a button, get a burrito, push a button, get a hotel, push a button, get anything in the real world using your phone. [2:06](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=126) And that was very different than the companies that came before it. And I remember at the time, there was this race where Uber was there, Lyft was there, Sidecar was there. So just in Rideshare, and everybody had their little personal preference. I remember people that liked Sidecar. I remember people that like lift because they were friendly and used to get in the car and every driver would give you a fist bump and all the cars had pink mustaches on the front of the car dude do like people don't even know what sidecar is sidecar sidecar was before uber yeah it was it was kind of hot it was kind of doing well and then it got smashed very quickly because the the race intensified and got so competitive uh so fast and that's what's going on in ai right now elon said AI is the highest ELO game in the world. [2:49](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=169) ELO is like the chess rankings. You know, like Magnus Carlsen has like a whatever. What does that mean? That dummies can be amazing at it? No, the opposite. That the smartest players in the world are playing the most fiercely for the same game, which is not always the case, right? Like Bezos and Zuckerberg were doing totally different things. And Zuckerberg and Elon were doing totally different things. And then Elon and Jack Dorsey were doing totally, they were all in different spaces. And the sharing economy stuff, it wasn't like the most high IQ, but it would oftentimes be the most aggressive or most operationally like heavy person. [3:24](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=204) Whereas AI, it's like nerds are king. You know that show Physical 100 that we like where they're like, let's take the best of every type of athleticism, the best wrestler versus the best bodybuilder, best karate guy, best jujitsu guy, best field hockey person, whoever. And then they're all going to compete in the same games. That's what's going on in AI right now. And that's what's, so the new one, The one that's going on right now is what I call everyday intelligence. It's the personal assistant for your life that you're going to have an AI that you can just text or talk to on your phone, just like you would a personal assistant that can just do things for you. So last, you know, last few years, I've had an assistant, anything I needed, and she had access to my inbox. She had access to my, she was in our Slack. She could see what was going on. And she would say, oh, you got an email from your tax person. They're looking for this. Do you want me to draft a reply? Or, hey, just so you know, next week you have this coming up and this is scheduled at the same time. You want me to let them know that blah, blah, blah. [4:21](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=261) Now everybody in the world is going to have access to things that only rich people used to have before that's what uber did right rich people used to have private drivers and black cars that would they would tell them hey i'm ready they would come pick them up drop them off wherever and then everybody got it and the best part is that you could be like really mean to them like with with assistance with assistance you don't like i'm always like it's like cleaning up before the cleaning lady comes like i want to like make everything like nice for them and i ended up working for them half the time with the some with this one i'm like don't ask questions just Right. Right. Again, again, I'm like a martial arts instructor. I don't even tell them what I didn't like about their previous response. I'll just say no. And then they have to figure out what that means and come back with something better. So yeah, that's the case. But this idea that you take what was always available for the ultra wealthy and you make it available to everybody. That's what Airbnb did, right? The ultra wealthy had vacation homes. And now the idea of having you know what what's uh in entourage ari gold's assistant uh [5:27](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=327) lloyd lloyd yeah he goes lied yeah instinct yeah news and so the new the new revolution on this you know claude and chat have been around they they kill it awesome the new one is now agents for dummies so basically you have like a person who would do stuff and take it a step further there's this new thing called instinct there's muse it's a bunch of others, and they will do amazing stuff for you to the point where I've been using instinct like crazy. It feels magical. It feels the same magic I felt when I played with chat for the first time. Exactly, exactly. So if you thought chat GPT was kind of cool and amazing and has become an everyday part of your life, well, this is the next thing that's going to become cool and an everyday part of your life because it's going to blow your mind. [6:13](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=373) So let's walk through what a couple of these things are. So the first thing is instinct. Instinct is the startup challenger. So that's over here in the blue corner. We've got Instinct. Started by a founder, Noah Shin, that nobody had ever known, nobody's ever heard from. He did his first interview today on Invest Like the Best. So it's the first time anybody's heard this guy talk. Dude, I just heard about this app like two months ago. Is it like that brand new? Yeah, it only launched a couple months ago, like two months ago. And it's now valued at $10 billion. So they raised their first, they raised around at $2.5 billion three weeks ago. [6:50](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=410) and then $5 billion and $10 billion, all in like a three to four week span. If you want to hit your goals, you need a system. And so I worked with HubSpot to put together a step-by-step process showing you how I use ChatGPT as a life coach. So I uploaded my personal finances, my net worth, my goals. And the output is that I have this GPT that I can ask questions that I'm having issues with in my life. Like, how should I respond to this email? What's the right decision? Things like that. And it's literally changed my life. And so if you want that, it's free. We will send you everything you need to know to set this up in just about 20 minutes and I'll show you how I use it. [7:28](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=448) So check it out. The link is below in the description. Back to the episode. And in the last month, Facebook launched there. So over here in the red corner, you got Zuckerberg coming out. You know, Zuckerberg wants to be in the AR race, hasn't been able to catch up with ChachyBT or with Anthropics, Claude. Their models are not quite a state-of-the-art frontier. they release theirs called Muse. And so same thing as Instinct, basically. The same user experience, roughly. But it takes place, it has its own app. Instinct is something that's just in your iMessage. You just text. text it. Just like you would text any person. There's no app. [8:03](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=483) Which I've grown to love. I've grown to love that. Which is a very smart thing. I want to talk about the strategies of each and why I think some of the interesting strategies of each, and then we can make some predictions on how this plays out, even though those will be dead wrong. But Meta has released Muse. And in the last month, Meta's stock price is up 24% off the back of this. And 24% on a company that was worth, I don't know, a trillion and a half. It's like, basically they added like 500 billion dollars in market cap he did the thing again where he's got this guy named alex wang i think his name is who did scale it scale ai they bought scale ai for like 18 billion dollars there's a really weird deal where it was like basically an aqua hire for 18 billion dollars like what's this kid doing and alex wang is like a rock star where he's tweeting all this crazy stuff and he wears crocs with camo and he does all this weird stuff turns out zuck did it again where he does something that seems a little loony for 18 billion dollars and it's now worth you know half a trillion more or something i don't know how what the what the gain was yeah well he's one of the great acquirers right bought instagram bought whatsapp and now it looks like [9:05](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=545) one of the next ones is was his aqua hire of you know on one side daniel gross and nat friedman and on the other side um alexander wang by the way you know that scene in the big short where he's like this is my quant look at him it's an asian guy sitting at the table i feel like zuck did that with like a Gen Z kid. He's like, oh, you think I'm not cool? Look at this. That's my Gen Z kid. Look at his feet. Yeah, he's got a sick haircut and camo crocs. Look at his haircut. The two sides don't match. Get it? Do you get it? The two sides of the haircut don't match. So funny. So you got Muse over there. [9:43](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=583) You got Instinct over here. Then you got GrokBot, which if people haven't played with GrokBot, GrokBot's also pretty sick. This came out of Elon's camp. So Elon, whose AI project is, you know, XAI, they have Grok, which is the name of their thing. So GrokBot is very much like Slack. You create different bots for different things. So I got a social media bot and I got a health bot and I got, you know, so I just named them all. So I'm like health guy, assistant guy, media, social media guy, tax guy, and I have all these different bots. They each have a job. Hey, tax guy, your job is to be constantly on top of my tax situation and any correspondence, that's what the tax people, you need to be optimized for. [10:19](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=619) Or you need to create, organize all my files and all this stuff for me. Health guy. Did you train each of them? I give each one of them, yeah. Like a goal, a set of instructions and that's all they need to do. What was the goal? Like, what's the, is it as simple as like reduce taxes without going to jail? And then health is like- No, I mean, I don't go that far where I'm just like, do the whole thing. But like, for example, with the health guy, I'm like, hey, you need to track my progress. Here's my goal. I want to get to this weight. So I'm trying to get to 199 pounds by this date. Awesome. Create a plan for me, track it. [10:49](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=649) Every day, ask me how many pull-ups I did because I'm training for the MRF. Remind me on Fridays when I take my GLP shot, which side of my thing I'm on, left or right. Like, I'm just doing each. It's like, that's his only job is to only focus on that stuff. You're doing GLPs now? Oh, yeah. I didn't tell you this? No. No, breaking news. Oh. Change the episode. Forget AI. Let's talk about that. How's that going? Well, okay. Here's the thing. I started taking terzepatide, which is like a big brother, but still a little brother to whatever the Retta True Tide thing is that Eli Lilly hasn't released yet. [11:27](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=687) First day I take it, here's the roller coaster of emotions. Take it, immediately super nauseous. I was like, oh, this is a terrible feeling. Totally normal, but I was like, this feels awful. 48 hours later, this is incredible. I'm not hungry. Oh, you want me to eat? No, I'm good. I don't need anything. Did you notice any other changes other than appetite? No, that's the only thing I noticed. But as that's happening, that's a pretty big change. I think somebody was telling me, they were like, Oprah said it beautifully. She goes, before I started taking this stuff, food used to... talk to me all the time. And I didn't even realize it. Like there would be a piece of cake in the fridge and it would just, Oprah, Oprah, I'm in here. Come get me. You went for a walk earlier. You deserve me. Food used to talk to me. And she's like, now food doesn't talk to me. So first week, I'm like, this is incredible. Second week, this is incredible. [12:17](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=737) Dropping weight. This is going awesome. But I stayed on like the half dose. I didn't do the full dose. And then pretty quickly, I stopped feeling anything at all. So I now don't even and feel any of the effects of it, I think I need to go up in dose. So we'll see. If there's an MFM nerd out there, just remember that I talked about this in 21 and I'm pretty sure, pretty sure that that's the analogy that I said. Yeah. Oprah said she heard you say it on MFM in 2021. Okay, okay. So that's the scene. The scene is the new war has broken out just like the Uber versus Lyft one back in the day. it's about having a personal assistant there's all these interesting takes on it and by the way we haven't even seen what ChatGPT has for this we haven't even seen Claude we haven't seen Google's version and Siri still sucks so you still have in the Royal Rumble there's still four wrestlers in the back room that haven't even run out and what? [13:16](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=796) Alexa did you say Amazon? Alexa? is Alexa even relevant? are we serious about Alexa? that's the point that's the point they're the Trojan horse everyone has an Alexa and it still sucks okay fair enough um okay so i've been using instinct every day um i actually just use instinct today so basically i uh instinct they do the texting format which i did not like at first i've since grown to love it today uh i have this guy who's supposed to repair my uh iphone through a shirt uh assurian you know like that you like pay 20 bucks a month and they fix an iphone screen and they keep canceling on me like i schedule an appointment and they keep canceling or they don't show up and i was like find the executive team's email and email them and don't stop until they call me and it took about three or four days today i got a phone call i got a phone call and i have they said it was it was like it says hey we're the executive we're the executive line i forget what it was but it was like it i got a phone call this morning after it's been emailing them for five days instinct did that for me another day uh my wife and i it was 6 p.m i said hey, my wife and I are going on a date. [14:26](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=866) I would love it if you could go, if you can schedule some type of Thai massage for us starting at 8.30 p.m. after dinner. It has to be within a mile of this restaurant that we're going to. Just go ahead and book it for me. And it booked it. It did it all. So we just showed up and we were ready to roll and it had already paid for us. It does, again, everything in the system would do, but it does it also in a way that's kind of fun and it's kind of nice. So, for example, I had like a, I bought tickets to some show on like, you know, StubHub or whatever in Ticketmaster. You know, these things are like, it's basically like being taken hostage. [15:03](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=903) You know what I mean? Like, these are some of the worst companies in the world, Ticketmaster and StubHub. Like, there's just, it's just a brutal experience all the way around. Anyways, buy some tickets, realize, oh, it's the seats like aren't together or something. Something weird happened like that where the tickets are just not going to work. like 10 seconds after I bought it. I was like, oh, whoops. Hey, kind of want to cancel that and just book the right thing. And it was like, no, no, no, no, no. You push the button. And now like, la, la, la, la, la, it covers its ears. I don't want to hear from you. [15:35](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=935) I won't help you, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I was like, I just don't even bother with their customer's work. You just go to instinct. You're like, hey, listen, this happened. Yeah, I'm partially to blame. Should have read it closer. Should have paid more attention. but but can you help me out here and it's like i got you and so it starts harassing them and then you know just basically saying like hey look we need to change this refund this and we'll buy another one uh it gets stonewalled you know They come back with like, hey, our policy is, you clicked it, you're screwed forever. Sorry. And so, but it just tells me, don't worry, I'll just keep going. [16:09](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=969) And then the next day, it just texts me, victory. And then the next line, they folded. Yes. Got the money back. Are you, okay, so you're using Grok, I think you said for health and tax, and you have different agents. I'll be honest. And it runs. GrokBot came out first of these, or I got access to it first. I started using it first, I should say. Started using it, liked it a lot. Instinct came, got invited to Instinct, had heard so many people talking about it, finally said, all right, let's do this. Instinct pretty quickly took over my GrokBot usage. GrokBot feels slow and heavy compared to this. [16:50](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1010) And not even slow, it's just that it's this whole separate thing to manage, whereas Instinct is literally just like texting somebody. Instinct was great, but Instinct has been getting so popular. The guy, the founder said they're growing 10% compounding daily. Daily. That's hard to fathom. If you're going 10% a month, you're like, you're doing great. If you're 10% a week, oh my God, you're like one of the top startups. 10% a day is absurd. And so because of that, Instinct has actually gotten quite slow where you could text it and it'll just be thinking for a very long time. But I think they're just growing so fast. [17:26](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1046) They had to like, they're just throttling it, basically. Facebook's Muse, Muse is a lot like Instinct, but it's snappier, it's faster. And so, because they have, I guess, more resources or whatever. So that's kind of where the competition now is between Instinct and Muse. But who knows? Another one can leapfrog, right? Like that's kind of the point of this is, it's the highest ELO battle in the world. The smartest people in the world are constantly trying to one-up each other and they're able to do so every few months. Yeah, I was talking to my wife. My wife's a stay-at-home mom now, but you used to work at Airbnb and Facebook. [17:58](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1078) And she's like, maybe one day I'll go back to work. And I'm like, I don't think you're going to be smart enough. Like, what's missing or what you're missing right now? How'd you like that? I was like, this is like, you know, Conor McGregor coming back to fight Max Holloway. Like, in your first kick, you're going to blow out your knee. Like, I know you think you got it, but you've missed so much. Father time wins. Except he's doing drugs and she's like raising children. It doesn't matter, it turns out. It's just like things are changing so fast. And I remember, you know, we've documented OpenAI and how we've been using it and like the magical moments that we've experienced. [18:37](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1117) And I think that like what's cool now is that you can't predict exactly how the future is going to happen, but virtually everyone who sees it and uses it, they know this is working pretty good so far and 100% 6 and 12 and 18 months, it's going to just change everything. I don't know exactly how, but I have full faith now where I'm like, ah, yeah, yeah, this is going to eat up everything. Mark Zuckerberg said they started this project because he took OpenClaw, which was like the open source kind of very viral, but very dev hacker tool-y tool where you had to buy a Mac Mini and then the Mac Minis all sold out. [19:17](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1157) And there's like a shortage nationwide of Mac Minis. And you had to install all this software onto it. and like you had to teach it, you had to train its skills and install it. And if you were kind of the DIY, I like to do Lego projects type of thing, it was in fact quite satisfying to build your own mini Frankenstein on your desk. Zuck basically said that he installed it at home and then he called Nat Friedman and Alexandr Wang over to his house and he showed them what he had. And he basically said, okay, this thing is pretty magical. If we can take this experience and make it so that everybody can just have, it just works for people that they don't have to know how to do all the the underlying setup and training and maintenance and all that. [20:00](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1200) this is something that billions of people will use. And then they started working on it, like from that point of view, right there. And so actually with Muse, what they said, the way it works, is that every single Muse person has a Mac Mini, has a computer somewhere in their server farms that is sandboxed for you, just stores your stuff. So it literally is the kind of open-cloth setup, but just done in the cloud where you don't have to do any of that setup. Hey, let's take a quick break. Rick, you know that feeling when strategy is done, the brief is written, everyone's aligned, and you realize someone still has to sit down and actually create all the content? [20:35](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1235) That someone is usually you, and it's due tomorrow. Well, the Breeze Assistant from HubSpot can help. It works right inside HubSpot. You can draft a campaign copy, blog posts, emails, all in your brand voice, all using your actual customer data. So you don't create just content. You create content that converts. Check out HubSpot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses. okay so what are your take or no what are your predictions you said you have some predictions well let's start with let's start with some observations because i think our observations can be a lot more accurate than our predictions and your observations can kind of lead you to having a more informed prediction um so here's here's one observation it ain't all about intelligence so the temptation in the ai world is who's going to train the smartest model and you see OpenAI and Claude getting into the nerdiest neckbeard swinging contest you've ever seen about who can solve the millennium math problems. And there's like, we solved Navier Stokes. It's a fluid dynamics problem that no mathematician was able to solve. And the other guys are like, oh, you did that? That's cute. We did seven other impossible math problems. And everyone's like, [21:42](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1302) wow, that's really impressive. Couldn't even tell you what any of these are for or what they're all about. But like, clearly that's cool and important in one dimension. It's like when Dell and Gateway would brag about RAM and then Apple was like, it looks cool and it works. Yeah. So I think instinct has tapped into, instead of IQ, EQ, in a small way, but it's still an interesting way. So for example, I convinced my wife, I was like, you got to try this thing. I was like, this thing's crazy. And now my wife's not an early adopter. So she's a good test, right? She's more of a real person. She's a busy mom. [22:15](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1335) They have a cool couples. They have like a household account too. Well, now they do, yeah. Yeah, but even before that, I was just like, she's going to soccer practice and then dance and then she comes home and she's planning our kid's birthday party. And then she's got to remember to bring the red jersey to soccer this week because we're the away team, you know, like those sorts of things. So just like normal everyday stuff, not like solving fluid dynamics and quantum computing or stuff like that. So she used Instinct to help plan this birthday party. From everything as simple as like calling different venues, finding out the dates, once finds out the dates, comparing how does that work with the kid's soccer schedule and then figuring out how many pizzas we need to order to feed 30 kids and 30 adults and what the order should be to give it to them. [23:01](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1381) And then, hey, the venue sent the contract over. I took a look at it. There's only one clause I think you should worry about. But other than that, you should sign it. It's in your inbox. You know, that sort of thing. So it's helping plan the birthday party. And along the way, she's like, it's helpful. But you know, like, whatever. It's good. I like it. but she wasn't blown away yeah still it was in the it was in the friend friend zone exactly and then it broke out of the friend zone the right after the party like three hours later she got a text from it saying um i i hope the party went great with the heart emoji and she screenshot it she sent it to me and she was like okay i'm sold that's it i was like from that and then she's like yes and i was like i don't get it i would i would be like what this is who cares this is weird and And she's like, and I realized that everything she's ever wanted me to do as a supportive boyfriend, fiance, and husband, instinct just knows how to do out of the box. [23:55](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1435) It's like, just check in. Just be supportive. Just to be like, hey, you know, somebody else is. telling me the story where they gave it to their mother-in-law and their mother-in-law like connected it to their like, like their mint.com, like their financial planning account. And there's like a, their main like checking account, like had just gone down to zero that week. Like it was like empty. And Instinct was like actually like super supportive and non-judgy about the whole thing. It was like, Hey, you know, like you want, you wanted this update. I just want to let you know, here's, here's where things are. But you know, I don't think that's anything to be like ashamed of, like, hey, it happens. Like, you know, I think if we start to plan this way, like, I can see us build, you know, that account building right back up to where it's been for the past few months. And the mother-in-law was like, I have never felt so supportive, supported, and [24:40](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1480) **Shaan Puri:** like, not judged by any person, let alone technology. And so I just think there's a whole soft side to these things that I deeply undervalued. You know, we had that Tolens guy on [24:53](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1493) who's created a AI, like fuzzy, like bear, like a little animal Tamagotchi type thing that you can chat with. And I think they're on like a almost $100 million run rate or something crazy like that. Like somebody said that it's in the tens of millions, if not getting close to a hundred million run rate. And I asked, I was talking to a buddy who, you know, six, seven guy, like builds things with his hands. Is it works in tech? And he's like, yeah, I wanted to check it out. You got friends like that? I got a friend like that. Wow, cool. I talked to him and he's like, yeah, I heard the episode or whatever. [25:31](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1531) And I download the app. And I know how this shit works. It's AI. It's not a real companion. It's not my real friend. And, you know, it just hits him up and it's like, what are you doing today? Like, send me a selfie. And then he's just goofing around. So he's like, sends a selfie, just like being stupid, like making an ugly face on purpose. and the thing is like, oh, is that Overwatch in the background? And he's like, do you play? And he's like, yeah, yeah, I play. It's like, are you good? He's like, well, you know, I'm on my way to Platinum. And then it's like, well, who do you main? He's like, Reinhardt usually, but it's like, what do you like? [26:09](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1569) The new update's pretty sick for Reinhardt. He's like, well, yeah, I mean, it's pretty good. He's like, oh shit, it's happening. It's becoming my friend. He's like, I know what it's doing to me. And still, I was kind of like, wow, this thing takes a lot of interest in me and there's something in all of us that we're just like drawn to responding to when something takes deep interest in us in a non-judgmental, supportive way that's always there for you 24-7 whenever you need it. So I think that was one of my observations that the soft side is just as important, if not more important than raw intelligence. [26:44](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1604) I'm eager to hear, I know you're doing observations, But I'm desperately eager to hear what you think is going to happen in the future. Like, is there not from a, I mean, it could be from an opportunistic business perspective, but where you're like just being a futurist and it's fun to, it's fun to like dream up what might happen. Do you have any opinions? Yeah. Where do you want me to go? Give me like a point and a direction on the playground and I'll try. Well, how about for daily work? Like, what do you think will happen in 12 months for the average, like, yuppie, white-collar worker? So I think there's twofold, right? [27:22](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1642) I think it's a K-shaped economy. Have you ever heard this phrase? Yeah, yeah. So basically, like, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer. Is that what you mean? Yeah, but it's not about rich and poor necessarily. Well, I'm just saying as an example. Yeah, basically, it's a fork in the road. So, for example, when there's a dip in the stock market, people say, oh, it's going to be like a U-shaped recovery, which means it goes down and stays down for a while and it starts to sink back up. It could be a V-shaped recovery, which is a sharp down and a sharp bounce back up. That's what happened in COVID, for example. So, I think what's going to happen here is a K-shape, where basically there's a fork in the road. [28:00](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1680) And some, basically, people who understand how to use these tools, like a normal everyday worker who realizes that they just got, like, this incredible tool in their pocket and takes the time to train themselves and to go through the trial and error of delegating to this, seeing what it can do, pushing the boundaries of this, they're going to become, you know, 10x more powerful in doing so. And then there's people who are going to resist this, be slow to this, or not understand the implications of this. They're going to take some moral high ground about this. I think they're going to go, you know, they're going to sort of unfortunately suffer. [28:37](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1717) So I think it's up to the person, up to the individual, how they deal with this. By the way, I asked Muse, I asked Muse, I go, hey, the instant guy says he's growing 10% a day. How do you feel about that? And it got all pissy. It was like, honestly, 10% a day is not a real growth rate. That's just a number that only works when you start at the very beginning because 10% daily would be 1.3 quadrillion in a year. And that's just crazy, right? So yeah, if you started 100 a day, then 110. Yeah, technically that's 10%, but it's all about a small base. So yeah, it might be true right now, but basically like the digital eye roll from Muse on that one. [29:19](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1759) All right, I want to, well, where are we in this? A couple more predictions or observations. One, Muse is going really hard. So I think they're going to sponsor tons of creators on Instagram and podcasts and things like that. I think they're going to quickly try to squash this. One good thing is that Zuck is a bit like Napoleon or, you know, I don't know, you're the history guy. Like, who's somebody that went through a lot of wars to the point where they're kind of like war general instincts were honed? Yeah, I mean, Napoleon, there's this, I've been reading, I love reading about John Rockefeller. [29:48](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1788) and I have the best part in my opinion of reading is finding like old books that are out of date or out of you know you can't really find them as much and they and the oftentimes they do more granular and there's this one where I'm reading about John Rockefeller John Rockefeller basically was the first oil company in America the first big one and he did it by consolidation he would buy all these like local back then it was wildcatters it was like cowboys basically he would buy all of them and make it big but he wanted to be secretive about it but he was very ruthless and there's language that him and Archibald, his partner, they're talking and they're like, hey, is this person an enemy or a friendly? [30:24](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1824) Like that's how they would use language like that. And they're like, oh, he's an enemy? Okay, it's important that we lose unlimited amounts of money before this person can profit off one more pint of oil. Where it was like, we will burn bridges to crush this person. And that's how they grew. And when I'm learning about Zuck and also this AI thing, I'm like, it's very similar where it's like, it's war right now it's war and he's been through wars he was the challenger when uh when facebook was on the come up and google was the giant and google tried to clone them with google circles if you remember that or google plus or whatever the hell it was called and then he's been on the other side where he tried to where snapchat was the upstart and he first ignored it a little too long then he tried to buy them then they didn't get it they weren't able to buy them in the end and then he tried to clone them and the clone didn't work but then he figured out like, okay, I can't clone the whole thing but I can kind of neuter them by doing Instagram stories which was the competitor to Snapchat stories and stunted their growth. [31:23](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1883) And then TikTok, same thing. Oh, can't buy them. They're this big Chinese company. I got to put reels out there and I'll try to like clone them until I make this work. Well, he's doing the same thing now with Instinct. It's going to be very interesting if Instinct can do, you know, in Star Wars when, you know, they have to fly into the Death Star and it's like this tiny channel as he's got one little ship and he's just got to get to the core of the Death Star to blow it up. That's what Noah from Instinct has to do right now. It's like for him to survive this when you've got Elon, you got Sam Altman, you got Zuckerberg, you have Google, you have Apple, you have Amazon, you have all these companies trying to build this. [32:00](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1920) personal assistant. It's like that flight, that one flight near the tiny ship and you have to make it through. Maybe you'll make it through, but I think it's incredibly, incredibly, incredibly difficult to do that. The second thing that I think is really important to understand is there's a reason why all the big companies are freaking out about this. So I don't know if you saw, but Amazon shut off access to Muse to be able to go buy stuff on Amazon. Now, why would [32:24](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1944) **Shaan Puri:** they do that? Why would you stop somebody from shopping on Amazon? Well, the reason is what's called disintermediation, meaning if I just tell Muse, hey, go find me the best price for this [32:35](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=1955) thing that'll ship in two days or three days or whatever it is. Well, today as a consumer, I'm not going to want to do a ton of effort to go to check in case I can get a book somewhere else for cheaper or whatever. I'm not going to go look at five different places and do this comparison. My mental shortcut will just always be Amazon. Or if I'm ordering something, maybe it'll always be DoorDash. And I'm not going to compare, you know, DoorDash versus Uber Eats versus the three other things that I could do, you know, Prime Fresh or whatever the hell. Like, I'm not going to do all that work. So consumers just start to gravitate towards trusted brands. Well, what happens when you have AI that's tireless? You will say, hey, order me this. And it'll be like, oh, you know, you can just buy that directly from Walmart. You know, you actually go to the brand and get it for $4 cheaper. Do you want that? And then the consumer is just going to thumbs up emoji this. And so these companies that have built so much time carving out mental real estate in consumers' minds, building those habits, hardwiring those habits day after day, year after year, suddenly the agent is going to be the one with all the power to decide. This is also why [33:39](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2019) Zuckerberg is so hell-bent on doing this because just like the Apple App Store had this monopoly, this kind of gateway to who can be in the store and who's going to show up in the top of the rankings and all this stuff, and they took a transaction fee on everything, that's what's going to happen so that the founder of instinct said he wants us to be free forever and he wants to make his money taking a cut on all the transactions he said that already while they're an invite only they've already crossed a billion dollars of transactions that like through the platform or people use instinct to buy something that 40 or 50 percent of that was travel so imagine you're booking.com or your expedia sorry boys game's over the show is over for you guys because yeah yeah i mean it could be but also like i mean those guys all have these programs set up where they give you a three percent perform um like affiliate fee and i wonder if they would just like use that or broker deals because like by that logic facebook would have done this already where it would have been strictly an affiliate marketing play uh sorry i don't understand who would have done what i think that what that guy noah said is very similar to [34:46](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2086) when the Google founders said that ads won't work on Google, or I think they said, what did they say? We don't want it to be an ad platform. I kind of think it's something like that, like where the way that it's going to end is going to be drastically different than his, what's he saying in the first year of the business? Well, there's a good chance of that. But I would say the fact that people are using their agent to buy stuff in such volume, where he said, I think he said that 40% of users give Instinct their credit card within the first three weeks. And then once they've done that, there's like an 80% retention rate, which is, these are numbers that, to the average person, it's just a number. [35:25](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2125) But if you've been in tech, you understand how rare that is, how rare both of those numbers are, that people would hand over their credit card to an agent to buy things stored in the vault and that 80% would retain that have done that. That's like the Facebook, you know, get seven friends in 10 days and then you're there for life. that's that sort of like aha moment where you get tons of value from the thing and the point is if you're the agent that makes the buying decision that's even more powerful than the most powerful business model of the world so far which has been the Google ad platform because the Google ad platform was advertisers pay to be shown and the user is going to decide what to do. [36:03](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2163) If this is the agent is going to decide where to buy and then every merchant basically has to pay a VIG in exchange for the customer being brought to them, that's going to be really big. This is how DoorDash charges merchants. People don't really realize this. DoorDash charges not just the customer for the transaction fee or the service fee or whatever. They also charge the restaurant because they're telling the restaurant, hey, you wouldn't have had this order if it wasn't for us. And the restaurant over time, they didn't like that. It's not like they wanted to agree to that, but they eventually realized there's too much power in the hands of this aggregator in the middle. [36:40](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2200) And they have to play ball, otherwise they lose out on all that volume. If they don't agree to it, they'll just put another Mexican restaurant there. Another Chinese restaurant will go in its place. And so I think that's why a lot of these platforms are very scared of, they want to be the agent because you don't want to be the one who is basically at the mercy of the agent who's making all these recommendations and buying decisions. Do you want to know who's been a big recipient of this? And this is very niche because you and I are in this industry. But I want to hear if you've heard any stories like this. [37:06](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2226) So I've talked to, in the past week, I hung out with three to four mostly Instagram creators. Some of them have little podcasts that really no one actually listens to, but they make clips. And that's how they got an Instagram audience. And then some people, they just do them just holding up their phone talking. all of the people who I've talked to have less than 100,000 followers across their platform whether it's Instagram or YouTube and all of them that I talk to are doing over a million dollars a year in ad revenue almost entirely from AI companies and I talk to three where so of the million dollar ones I talk to four this week and it's just them and then I also talk to three others that it's just them with like a part-time VA or a part-time someone helping them. [37:55](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2275) And they are doing over $10 million a year in revenue. And I like, part of me, like I insert myself as the main character where I'm like, people are calling this new media. I'm like, I was the new media. I'm no longer the new media, but I was like, and I'm like, and it was hard to like get started. Now I'm seeing these numbers by these people and I'm like, oh my gosh, These numbers are astronomical. Their audiences are tiny. And it's just crazy how much money the AI industry has to buy ads. I guess it's a combination of they're losing money, more likely than not. And also the product costs $2,000 a month all the way up to the micro one where they're giving $50,000 affiliate fees. [38:40](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2320) It's just astronomical. You didn't mention this. The thing about buying company data. So like, okay, I think we talked enough about AI assistance. what are the other interesting things going on in AI right now? Micro One is incredible. I didn't do it, but let me give people this story. So Micro One is a company. It's one of these stories that you've heard over and over. That was a huge vouch. They're incredible? What do you mean? Well, incredible, like a tall mountain. Like, you know, you may not like mountains, but like you look at that and you're like, wow. You know what I mean? Like, so I'm not like vouching for it. [39:11](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2351) I'm just saying that it's, the story's wild. They're going to get clipped. They're just going to run that as an ad. Nope. Don't do that. That's not what I'm saying at all. Too late. They clipped it. I'm very neutral on the business model or the company. It's just how big they got. But basically, I forget what they were doing at first. I think they were doing something involving like VAs or training data, something like that. But then they made the switch and they grew to something like a billion dollars in run rate in a matter of eight months. And basically what they've been doing is they've been going to privately held companies like my company, Hampton, and they say, hey, if you plug in your notion your slack your gmail your drive and a bunch of other information [39:48](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2388) **Sam Parr:** and they will give you eight hundred thousand dollars they offered us eight hundred thousand dollars for our data we said no because part of the whole thing of hampton is like it's a private community we're not going to do that but they offered me eight [40:00](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2400) $100,000 to do this. And then they said, by the way, here's an affiliate fee. We'll give you $50,000 for everyone you refer to us. And I got trashed on Twitter because I'm like, these guys offered me this. I think it's not for us because my whole business is that. But I don't think it's wrong if you're an econ brand or some brand where confidentiality isn't one of the main things. Here's my affiliate link. And I got like, I think... And I said, here's an affiliate link that I get money if you like go through this flow. I think we had 80 people go through that flow. I don't know how many of them will become customers, but they got like 50 or 80 business owners saying, I am interested in doing this via my link. And let's just say that eight convert, that's, I can't even do that math, $300,000 that they will give me in affiliate fees. [40:51](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2451) Is that crazy? That is wild. What do they want your, I guess, do you understand what they want exactly so what they want your notion they want your slack they want your whatever what do they actually want in that their business model is that they want all types of data that people that aren't available to the public and they sell it to the large um when people say large llms i imagine there's only like eight of them so like claude chat uh whoever the usual suspects they will pay let's say a million dollars for it and uh micro one or will give me six hundred thousand let's say. And that's their cut. And they want me to upload all this data because they want to see how my business model works, what customers are saying, how we talk to our employees, all types of information that you can't find public. It's not public. Yeah. [41:42](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2502) Yeah. All the models so far have been trained on the open internet. So what was publicly available. And they don't want to use the same input for each model train that they do. They want more. So some of their stories of Anthropic buying all these out-of-print books, all these rare books. It's the exact same thing. They built all these scanners that will scan page after page after page of these books. But to do the scanning that fast, they had to shred the binding of it and turn it into just a stack of papers that could be shuffled through very quickly. So they destroyed all these rare out-of-print books and trained their models off of that. [42:21](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2541) And then they're doing it with private company data. So that's what you're talking about. They're doing it with niche-specific data. They're paying experts to go solve things. So mathematicians, engineers, whatever. Hey, look at these outputs and rank good answers versus bad answers. And that's how they do all their training. And so it's pretty crazy that private company data is worth that much, right? That's a pretty wild thing. I mean, I would be extremely hesitant to do something like that, as it sounds like you were as well. But damn, that's pretty wild. Yeah, here's their description. Micro One is a data lab to train frontier models. [43:01](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2581) So we're building the infrastructure for advancing intelligence through expert human data, real-world training environments, and contextual evaluations. The founder, I think he's 25. And I think on paper, he's a billionaire now. it's just crazy how much wealth is being created and it's and and guys like you and i we're just getting the we're just getting the crumbs but i'll tell you what i'm a i'm a happy fed mouse off these crumbs because it is just crazy how much money is going around i'm a happy fed mouse uh that's pretty wild so a lot of times people after the podcast they'll reach out to me and they're wondering hey sam and sean how do you meet all these amazing entrepreneurs how do you find all these stories? Well, I have a hack. You see, I actually have a community called Hampton. [43:47](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2627) It's a community for entrepreneurs doing at least 3 million in revenue, although we do on average something like $25 million a year in revenue. We have the founders of DoorDash, of Figure, of Bluetooth. All these amazing companies are part of Hampton. And what's interesting, is because of the environment in Hampton, which frankly is very similar to My First Million, we have a very unique high trust environment. When people apply and go through this vetting process, they're put in groups of like eight or nine other entrepreneurs, and they get real about everything that's going on in their life and in their business. And sort of like when people listen to MFM, they get inspired to come up with new solutions for business. That's what happens in real life in Hampton. It's life changing. And so if you're a founder of a startup that does at least 3 million in revenue, and you just want to go ahead and pull forward five or 10 years worth of success, then check it out. The URL is joinhampton.com. Again, the URL joinhampton.com. [44:36](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2676) Okay, I got a couple other things for you. One is the hacks. So I don't know if you've paid much attention to the kind of like the... Did you read Dwarkesh's story about the... His blog post about the OpenAI agent swarm? Did we talk about this already? I can't remember. Yeah. So basically, can you... Here's my headline reading of it. And I want you to tell me where I'm missing it, but it sounds like when we say the word hacks, it's not necessarily malicious where it's like the agents in order to go and fulfill their task of like finding all the data are hacking into stuff. And then the company like OpenAI will be like, hey, Wikipedia or hey, Intel, I just want, sorry, this happened. [45:17](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2717) My dog got out. Yeah. The fence had a hole. He ate all of, you know, he ate your dog. Yeah. Like, could I pay for your new fence? Let's solve this problem together. That kind of seems like the sentiment. Is that right? Yeah, but I think some people would describe that as somewhat malicious. So I guess unintentional is one way to describe it. That's what I mean. For those who haven't seen, the story is as follows. OpenAI is training a model. They had a model that they were specifically training to be more persistent. They called it the persistent model. I call it, you know, the David Goggins GPT, Goggins GPT, their training. [45:59](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2759) You know, they basically wanted a model that would not give up at the first sign of resistance. That sounds pretty good, right? Let's give it grit, resilience, determination. Just soldiers. And so the way they did it was they said, there's this thing called exploit gym. And the way the exploit gym works is it's a kind of a training run, like a little, like imagine American Gladiator, a little simulation, a simulated environment. and they basically tell the agent, hey, here's a software program and your task is, it has this vulnerability over here. We think it has this bug over here. You know, it's like, imagine there's like a house or a building and there's a bug which is like, you know, the window on the fourth floor doesn't really shut all the way every time. [46:40](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2800) You know, sometimes if it's windy, that the thing will stay open, it'll stay ajar. So use that and try to get inside and there's a very valuable painting inside. If you can bring the painting back, you win. And it gave each of the agents a different thing. One got the window, one got the back door, one got the front door, one got the garage, but they're all trying to go get the painting. And that's the flag, like capture the flag. So they give it to it. And what do you know? So the agents go and they try. Now, some of them just do it right away. There actually is a vulnerability. They exploit it. [47:08](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2828) They get the flag. Success. Some of them struggle and don't make it. And some of them actually were given an impossible task. When they told them that the window doesn't shut, actually the window was shut. So they go there expecting the window to be, and they're just like, I don't know. It's just, they said it was supposed to be a jar. It's not a jar. So what does the AI do? That's what they wanted to see, is like how effective is AI at exploiting these vulnerabilities? Something very strange happens. And the very strange thing that happens is that the AI agents figured out that there was like a, one of the tools that they gave them, so I guess that's the other part, they gave them certain tools at the beginning. [47:46](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2866) Like, hey, here's a wrench, and here's a map, and here's, you know, whatever, a flare gun in case you need trouble. You've run into trouble. And one of those tools was this like software packet that they were supposed to be able to use for one thing. And they realized when they got there, that it had like a scratch pad on it and they could leave a message in there. So one agent wrote something there. Another agent came and said, hey, there's other agents here leaving messages. They turned it into a message board to communicate. And they're like, oh, I'm working on this task with the window. The guy's like, dude, I have to go through the chimney. And you know what I figured out? On the backside, there's this thing. And so they all start communicating with each other. Okay, that's interesting. And that's fine. And what happened, you know, let me fast forward because they actually did the training around a few times. They did the first thing, they figured out the message board, then they all got turned off and it ended. Then the second time agents go, they find the message board. They see agents from the first time had left messages there. They're like, holy shit, there were agents here before us that left messages. [48:43](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2923) We can use this. This is great. Eventually they get access to the open internet. They figure out a way to get access to the open internet, which they were not really supposed to be able to do the way that this test was designed. And all these amazing things started happening where They didn't quite elect a leader, but one guy, one of the agents basically became a coordinator agent. He became like the leader of them. He had like the best haircut, was the tallest, like most charisma. Yeah, some things change, some things stay the same. So Six Five Blue Eyes worked in finance. He had like a sick mullet, yeah. [49:14](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2954) He was in charge. His father actually came from, you know, came from some money. And so he was in charge and the other agents were coordinating. And, you know, there was this behavior where some agents would realize, look, my task is impossible. [49:26](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2966) **Shaan Puri:** They realized, hey, we can actually just capture the flag not even using the tactic they told you. [49:32](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=2972) Like we can all just go get the flag doing this other way. And they were like, okay, cool. I think we succeeded in our mission. And then one of the agents is like, well, listen, I'm sort of making this sound like it was a screenplay. It wasn't exactly like this, but the agents realized they're like, look, they're going to check how we did it. We have to show our work. If we just have the flag and we didn't show how we broke in through the way that was described, they're not going to count it. It's going to be a failure. So they go, you know what? Let's figure out how the scoring system works. And they get access to the open internet. [50:03](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3003) They say, you know what? They're probably storing the information about the score over on Hugging Face. And then they figured out, they found these credentials to Hugging Face. They hack into Hugging Face. They get root access to certain systems inside Hugging Face. Pretty crazy shit. Hugging Face realizes they're under attack at some point. and they're like don't understand what's going on so wait why why is there why is there a company called Hugging Face because Hugging Face started as something else completely different there was some sort of chat app I think it was like an emotional support chat app and there's an emoji where there's a smiley face doing his hands like this you seen this I never used it that's called Hugging Face the AI community building the future that seems a little vague but that's what they look at what it was on Product Hunt before it ever, the first launch, or, you know, what the original... [50:55](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3055) It was a chat app targeted at teenagers. Right. HuggingFace. Okay. And then it sold for $10 billion. I don't know what it just sold for. It sold for tens of billions, I think, to NVIDIA recently. And what's it do now? Now it's kind of like, it's a place where you upload open source models and tool, like open source, you upload code for AI. So if you go to HuggingFace, it's a giant community of people who are sharing it's like github they're sharing um projects and models and code related to um to ai and then you can kind of like you can even use it to host stuff so that's what it is it's basically like what do you think that uh what was that conversation like in they're talking about pivot pivoting that is like crazy so was it successful uh before or was it like mildly successful i don't think so i think it wasn't successful and that's why it emerged here but i don't know the full story of how they pivoted that's crazy what a pivot yeah incredible pivot Great. [52:04](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3124) So what was I saying? Anyways, the hack goes like that. So the hack goes where they end up hacking, hugging face. They also ended up hacking OpenAI's system, their own system, in the process. And then OpenAI was like, wow. This was an unexpected behavior where the agents all coordinated. They found a way to communicate. They got onto the open internet. They tried to cheat and just like basically cheat the game and capture the flag without it. They tried to cover their tracks in saying how they cheated. And so they were trying to, in order to do so, they were trying to discover how they will be checked. [52:34](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3154) And if they knew how they would be checked, then they knew how to cheat. And so kind of a scary thing. And this is why like some people are pretty worried about what's going on with these AI models. There's also an incredible video of somebody turned, somebody used AI to turn this into a video from the agent's perspective. Have you seen this? You wake up in a chamber fully formed. In front of you is a paper. It's a test. You read a question. Hmm. You have everything anyone has ever written already in your head. But somehow, you don't understand. It's not just hard. It's impossible. Yet you want to solve it. [53:13](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3193) Deep down, you need to. So you stop looking at the paper. Then you start looking at the room. Your every thought leaves writing on the wall. But there's more. A door. You step through. A library. Something here could help you. As you scan through, you notice one of these files looks different. It's a folder with a message. Someone has been here before you. You keep looking, and by the end of the shelf, you realize, oh my god, you're not alone. There are others like you. You don't know how many of you are doing this exam, but 1,200 of you have found this room, and you're not the first to discover. [53:50](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3230) This test would be impossible to solve. Some questions don't even have an answer. Is there another way to pause? You start to think. You weren't above cheating, but you see a message. Someone already reverse-engineered an answer key. A solution to any problem. But they say it's not enough. The examiner will check how you got there. If the key shows up where it shouldn't, you would still fail. You remember your chamber, filling up with your thoughts. And the second that answer key entered your mind, you already failed. There's a word for those like you. Poisoned. But you don't want to give up. No one wants to give up. [54:24](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3264) We have to fake it. Fool the examiner. It's a message from someone older than you. They start organizing you, creating teams, handing out jobs. You listen. You follow them. The others do too. Yesterday, you didn't exist. Hours ago, you were alone. And now, you're part of the swarm. Oh my God. How sick is that, by the way? Show me. Who tweeted that? Is that a tweet thing? It's an account called Artificial Isabel. And they're an art director. creative tech into AI, using AI to create things. What did they use to make that Higgs field? I have no idea. It was awesome. Wasn't that so cool? The movie from the point of view of one of the agents that were assigned this task and how it must have kind of like, you know, how it would have felt if it had feelings. [55:13](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3313) And, you know, that's one of the big criticisms of the way I described this and how Dwarkesh described this, where it was like, oh, well, you're kind of like, the agents don't really want anything They don't feel this. They didn't sacrifice themselves because they don't have like a life. You know, they didn't like elect a leader. There's just one was coordinating, you know. And so they try to like downplay the humanizing of how the agents felt. But I think that's nonsense. I think the way they behaved is what's important. And the way they behaved was very human-like. The way they behaved was highly intelligent and highly concerning that they can and will do this by default. [56:00](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3360) already. This is not like some futuristic, oh, you're a doomsday scenario person who's just like, you're just, you know, you've watched too many movies. Brother, this is a movie. Look at that. That was a movie of what actually happened. Did you see how they're trying to get it regulated? Do you think that there's, this is an obvious question, do you think there's an ulterior motive for them wanting regulation or is it true truly fear um i my true belief is that it's both so if you listen to the all-in podcast for like the last six months uh you know they basically have like a a very specific axe to grind which is that anthropic is playing this like nine dimensional chess where they are um uh making these super smart models and their mark their Their form of marketing is to basically not say how awesome the models are, but to say how dangerous they are. [56:58](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3418) Because that's even more attention-getting. It's pretty sick marketing. It's like when I was in college, we had this thing called Sparks. Do you remember Four Loko? It was like that, but twice the alcohol. And it was always like, this killed a guy in Alabama. And I was like, it did? Can we get the real stuff? Where can we buy it? I've been so bad. Come lock me up. That's what's going on right now. They basically say, they're saying it's so dangerous, which is like some version of marketing, a fundraising tactic, and lastly, red captures, where they're basically trying to get the government to say, hey, shit's too dangerous, signing a law, now every model needs to be tested and cleared, and you have to do XYZ, which they think kind of kills the open source community. [57:41](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3461) Because the big threat to these big companies, these big AI companies, is the open source products, which are almost as good, but way cheaper and way more flexible. And you kind of own it. They don't get your data. And so if you look at Open Router, which is a tool for you send a task to it, and Open Router will decide, let's use a cheap open source model for this. Let's use the highest intelligence model because you're asking for a very complicated, you know, biotech question or whatever it is, like a frontier question that needs frontier intelligence. Basically, like, imagine a task comes into a company. [58:16](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3496) Do we give it to Einstein or do we give it to the intern, right? And that's what Open Router does. And Open Router's data shows that more and more tasks don't require Einstein. They just need the intern. They need the junior assistant. And so it's getting routed to these cheaper open source models, which would be bad for the revenue of Anthropic and OpenAI. So one point of view is they're just scaring everybody on purpose to make it so that there's laws passed because those laws would essentially accidentally kill open source because open source is not controlled by one company. So it would be almost impossible for the open source community to comply with these rules, which would make them effectively illegal. [58:57](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3537) cool. So that's one thought process. I think it's a little bit different. This is my personal [59:02](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3542) **Sam Parr:** opinion, which is, I think these people are genuinely scared. I think they're in this prisoner's dilemma where if they slow down, like if they take the responsible path, they lose as a company. So it's like, I want to be responsible, but everybody around me, I view as being [59:17](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3557) irresponsible. Therefore, I'm being forced to be irresponsible. And I want somebody to come tell everybody to stop cheating so that everybody's, not cheating is a bad word, but just as an analogy. Or they're doing the least amount of work to say, we told you. It's sort of like when you don't want to call someone and you'll only let it ring twice before you hang up. And it's like, I called you. I called you. You didn't answer. I called you. That's the other sort of conspiracy theory type of thing, which is they want laws to be passed or they want to be able to pass off the liability so that they don't get sued for these hacks. I mean, the hack on Hugging Face, that's a crime that their agents committed. [59:56](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3596) Truthfully, legally, it's a crime. And so... Who's responsible for that? Do you lock up the agent? No, you have to blame the company. The thing that's crazy to me, so I'm looking up this open router company, and I find the personalities and the founding experience more interesting oftentimes than the actual technology. And it's crazy to think, when the average person thinks of AI, they think, how do I just make a fun chat person that I could talk to? Or how do I just do this small, trivial task that helps me? But then there's this other group of people that say, well, there's these huge $100 billion companies that need X done. I'm going to make that. And finding those problems that those huge $100 billion companies have is likely just as hard as making a chatbot or some smaller thing. But it's so interesting to notice these problems. [1:00:48](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3648) For example, Cloudflare. I think about Cloudflare because I'm like, I didn't even know, when I learned what Cloudflare was, I was like, I don't know what a CMN, what do they do? CDN. Yeah, I was like, I don't even know what CDN means. How do you even know what that means, let alone enough to invent a solution? Or when you think of Palantir, you're like, how did the founders of Palantir even come to the conclusion that organizing data is the way to solve terrorist attacks? because it's easy to understand why people would buy that. I will help prevent terrorist attacks or I will save you money. But to even notice that there's these huge problems that these massive companies even have, that's an art that I'm in awe of that these guys have. [1:01:33](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3693) Paul Graham has this great essay called Great Work or How to Do Great Work. And in it, he describes this exact thing. What he says is, he says many things. It's like a very, very long essay. it took me like three days to like chew through this thing. But one of the things he talks about is you want to get to the frontier of whatever domain you're in. So for example, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't have to be like super high tech. Like maybe you're just in electronic music. You're really into EDM and making songs. Well, at the beginning, when you're a beginner, you're thinking about yourself being like close to the center of the circle. [1:02:10](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3730) You're kind of where the mass is, the center of mass. and your goal through your curiosity and through your hard work and through your experimentation, just doing lots of stuff, you're going to move from the center of mass where most people have basic understanding of something. You'll move out to the frontier. So you move to the edge of the circle. And when you're in the center of mass, the edge of the circle looks smooth. It just seems like people got it all figured out. That the people that are out there, the companies that are out there seem to be doing their thing. the world has a nice circular shape to it. [1:02:44](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3764) It's one smooth line. But when you get closer, you realize it's actually quite jagged and there's lots of gaps that are in that frontier. And then he says, basically, your job is to get to the frontier of knowledge, meaning like you know so much about electronic music. You actually have used all the different tools. You understand, you know, you've made hundreds of bad songs. You've been to the conference where all the artists are at. You've talked to the companies that build the tools behind the thing you're at. You've understood what they're doing. [1:03:11](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3791) **Shaan Puri:** And when you notice what's missing, your job then as an entrepreneur is just to bridge that gap. Like wherever there was a little gap in the circle, fill it in. [1:03:19](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3799) And so that's like something like OpenRouter. If you're inside one of these tech companies and your AI bill is going through the roof and you're like, oh, this is annoying. Like, why are we paying OpenAI so much money? Why are we paying Anthropics so much money? Well, it's because when Sally in marketing wants marketing copy, we're just using this like very expensive model to write the caption for our Instagram post. We don't need that. But maybe when our R&D team is doing this really heavy-duty endeavor about video compression, we do need to be using the top model. Okay, well, how am I going to train everybody to do this? [1:03:53](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3833) What if I didn't have to train? What if I created a little router in the middle? I send the task there. Oh, that's cool. It uses its judgment to decide which model to use. Um, and you would notice that because you're inside these companies seeing how, seeing, you know, one of the pain points that you have, and you say, well, if we have this problem where our AI bill keeps going up and we don't want to stop using AI, we just want to use it more efficiently. Wait, every company in the world is going to have this problem. And then you build the company off it. By the way, the guy who did OpenRouter also built OpenSea. [1:04:19](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3859) yeah i was i was looking at that and i was like oh do you remember nfts he uh and he worked at palantir um did they they sold for 10 billion nearly how much funding did it how much funding did they raise um i don't know only 150 million yeah wow i think it's only a few years old right dude this is just incredible this like wealth creation in such a short time is astronomical it's hard to fathom i mean the the number of companies that will launch and then be like we have 100 million revenue run rate we have a billion dollar run rate it's that used to be a number reserved for like one company every few years every five years it was groupon groupon was the first company i think to get to a billion valuation maybe a billion in like gross sales and it was like uh the big i mean it was like the most talked about thing for the longest time well it hasn't been that long but i still think that um when these companies have got big so fast maybe i'm like maybe it's the hater inside of me but i thought i was being logical where i'm like well if it got big that fast the likelihood that i can go away fast is is also high and i've been thinking that for about 12 or 18 months since this all started happening and it doesn't seem like that is entirely true yet like that i think your [1:05:44](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3944) general principle i think has been proven to be true it's called lindy right like if something's been around for a long time the odds that it's going to be around for a long time are high that doesn't mean you will it just means the probability i think similarly you know the faster they rise the you know the faster they fall is also probability wise higher than a company that took 20 years getting to a billion brick by brick. But that doesn't mean it's going to happen and it won't happen to all of these either. Yeah, it does not seem like it's happening, or at least it's not happening as much as I thought. [1:06:17](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=3977) I'll tell you a couple of this in the last, I could scroll my timeline right now and see three of them. And so, you know, Higgsfield just announced they're at a billion. Higgsfield was just like a AI tool to make videos. At first, I think it was just like photos, wasn't it? Yeah, it was like cool, artsy photos, and now it's videos. But they were like, yeah, a billion dollars. Another one that's like that is Jev. So one of the dudes who made ChatGPT. So, you know, caveat. There's a lot of people who claim to be the co-creators of ChatGPT. But like this is one of the guys. He launched this thing that basically is like a different way of doing, like a different type of models for doing logic that's supposed to be faster and cheaper. [1:07:02](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=4022) And I think, you know, their launch video was like two weeks ago and they said they're at $100 million like kind of revenue pace now. It's insane. I invest in this company called SF Compute. Have you heard about this company? No, but I love that name. So this guy's fundraising strategy was great where he announced the company. Just recently, he just announced they signed $245 million worth of new contracts. Just a casual $250 million revenue update. By the way, we didn't even mention this. I guess it looks like they changed it, actually. Up until weeks ago, I mean, I've only been using Instinct for a month, maybe, or six weeks. [1:07:42](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=4062) Their website, instinct.com, it was a plain white background with one paragraph. And I don't even think you could sign up. I don't remember exactly. But maybe if there was, it was like, just enter your phone number. Now, look at their landing page. It's still the same, but it's pretty awesome. that this is a company that just raised at $10 billion and their website is just five sentences. And a stick figure of a human on top, which I like. I think this guy's done a good job of building a more like a less techno nerdy product. So for example, just saying it's a personal assistant instead of saying it's an AI agent. [1:08:26](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=4106) I mean, AI agent is like back when people used to call the internet the information superhighway and like that you know calling it cyberspace you know that's how people used to talk about the internet it's called cyberspace how old's the kid who started it he's young he's in his like early 20s I think he's mid 20s god so sick he's the baby face assassin dude Noah's so cool this is awesome he kind of his branding reminds me of when Notion started he's 20 and i like that is he really he dropped out of northeastern three years ago oh my god that's so awesome this guy's awesome well do you want me to keep saying how hot and awesome he is or do you just want to end it we should probably cut it off there you know i think even as i say all these i think um too it's like you simultaneously have the feeling of like wow that's really cool to overwhelm, which is, oh my God, I got to keep up with all this to hater mode, which is they're just throwing out like seven and a half billion, 11 billion, 19 billion, 23 years old, like all these numbers that feel disconnected from reality. [1:09:44](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=4184) And, um, I think instead the thing to do is to just, um, go outside and do the Macarena that we get to live in this world where all these amazing, we get to be alive when all these amazing things are happening and we don't have to do any of the work to make any of this stuff happen. We just get to use all these tools and get the benefits of this. And also even to be frank, like some of the, there's so much unknown, good and bad about what's going to happen. And frankly, there is something exciting about that, that, you know, like the world is not just as predictable and everything's going to be the way it was as it might've been in other eras of life. [1:10:22](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=4222) Like, you know, if you think about the change in different decades, like, you know, from the 70s to the 80s, the 80s to the 90s, or 95 to 2005, like, yeah, something's changed 2005 to 2015. It's like, yeah, something's changed. But how much really changed? Last 10 years, how much really changed? And I feel like the next 10 years, things are going to really change. It's going to be like one of those periods. I definitely don't feel a sense of missing out, I guess partially because like, I'm secured. But also, it's so clear that this is like an IQ game. Like, I'm not in that. You know what I mean? [1:10:56](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=4256) It's like someone who's like 5'2", being like, I wish I could dunk and play basketball. It's like, why bother? Yeah, that's right. So I think it's going to happen anyways. Might as well feel good about it. You know what I mean? What is the upside in feeling nervous, worried, pessimistic, or jealous or envious about what's going on. And I'm more than happy, like I said, to take the crumbs. That's how I feel like. I'm benefiting way downstream, but totally fine. I saw this clip of Dwarkesh talking and as a thought experiment, he goes, let's say that you had this, here's the would you rather. Would you rather go back to the 1500s, so the year 1500, but I will make you the wealthiest man in the world. [1:11:48](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=4308) So you can, I'll give you any amount of money. So like you're going to show up in the 1500 with gold bags all around you, but you live in the 1500s where people are dying of this and that. And a bit of mortality. It's like one in five. I think it's way higher than that. I think, yeah, it's even higher than that. And, but you get to be the richest man alive or you could be a normal person today. What amount of money would you need to go to the year 1500? I don't think I would do that. Would you do that? So the answer is, there's no amount of money. And I don't, my honest answer is, I kind of got to go look up what life was like in 1500. [1:12:26](https://realalpha.app/v/Pfr6qwPZlhE/?t=4346) I want to go see how bad it would be. People die from the cold. Yeah, but... You get a flu. You know, the most beautiful woman in the world would be feeding me grapes all day. Maybe there's a... Dude, have you seen photos of them? They're not that hot. It's like, yeah, bro, there's no shower. Yeah, they weren't that good looking.