20VC · 2 min · Jul 18, 2025

Coding agents are a step toward a new computer interface

Scott Wu · Co-founder & CEO, Cognition

Scott Wu sees IDEs and agents as intermediate forms of a new way to tell computers what to do.

In this episode

35:33 Reinforcement learning can train agents for specific jobs3 min
29:18Coding agents are a step toward a new computer interface2 min

Up next · All-InFood automation can cut kitchen labor below 10% of revenue 8:21

“I think of this as the next generation of human computer interface is the problem that's being solved here”

Scott Wuat 30:00 · 20VC

Takeaways

He frames the shift as a new human-computer interface.
He expects people to express intent instead of writing code.
He estimates 10–20 steps, each taking two or three months.

About this segment

Scott Wu sees IDEs and agents as intermediate forms of a new way to tell computers what to do. He estimates that 10–20 product steps, each taking a few months, could get there in a few years.

Scott Wu is cofounder and CEO of Cognition.

Co-founded Cognition, the company behind Devin, an autonomous software engineer; three-time IOI gold medalist.

Harry Stebbings, Host · Founder, 20VC
Built a venture firm on his podcast; its third fund closed at $400M.

From “Cognition CEO Scott Wu on Acquiring Windsurf: The Process, The Deal, The Rationale”, Jul 18, 2025. Watch the full episode

Answers “What will AI look like in the next few years?” See all 169 answers

Transcript

Transcribed by machine (Whisper) from the episode’s audio, so a word may be off here and there.

29:31
Is it that cursor win bottoms up developer minds and windsurf win and cognition now win top down large enterprise, super solid blue chip clients? Is that how you think that developer market shakes out? I think the honest answer I would say is I think it's far too early to call on any of these. I'll give you a hot take, which is none of us are that close to the future of software engineering, you know, and I think the future of software engineering is, look, this is going to take place over the next couple of years or so. But it really is this version where we call it an IDE or a coding agent or this or that. These are the terms that we use. I think if we're being real about what we're building here and what this is all going towards, I think of this as the next generation of human computer interface is the problem that's being solved here, which is
30:18
basically, as we said, code, software, the whole point of that is just telling your computer what to do. At some point, telling your computer what to do is not going to take place with code. It is going to take place with you just expressing your intent and there are a lot of things don't get me wrong there are a lot of capabilities problems to solve to get there there are a lot of you know interface problems to get there but but i think that is essentially what we get to is you know the simple thing i'd say is tony STARK does not pull up his laptop you know tony STARK goes and talks to jarvis right like like i i think there's there is a point at which you just have a very clean connection the ability to express your intent and do these things people talk about generative UI, people talk about senior single use software and so on. At the end of the day,
30:57
what it all really boils down to is you to have a very clean connection and able to just being able to tell your computer what to do. And it'll do that for you. And I think if we think about where everyone is today, like, I think there are 10 or 20 levels of what the product experience looks like until we get there. And the fun thing is, every level is like two or three months. And so if you kind of just multiply that out, it means we're going to be there in like a few years, you know, if this base keeps going, I believe a common enemy is a very important thing within a company if i were to push you scott and say hey who is the competitor that you most look to think