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The Builders with Walter Isaacson · 3 min · Oct 22, 2026

Thiel ranks incompetence below evil

Peter Thiel argues that evil can still produce results, while incompetence cannot, and illustrates the distinction through two versions of Faust. His ranking reveals why he favors effective builders over safe but inert leaders.

Peter Thiel

Peter Thiel is cofounder of PayPal and Palantir, investor.

Co-founded PayPal and Palantir, was Facebook's first outside investor, and co-founded Founders Fund.

About this segment

Peter Thiel argues that evil can still produce results, while incompetence cannot, and illustrates the distinction through two versions of Faust. His ranking reveals why he favors effective builders over safe but inert leaders.

From “Peter Thiel: The Real Danger of AI Isn't What You Think”, Oct 22, 2026. Watch the full episode

“I'm ranking these. I'm good over evil. But evil is better than bad.”
Peter Thielat 49:20 · The Builders with Walter Isaacson49:20

Takeaways

  1. He ranks good above evil, and evil above bad.
  2. He defines “bad” as incompetent, not morally wrong.
  3. His Faust comparison separates productive ambition from empty fraud.

In this episode

Full episode

  1. 46:58Thiel ranks incompetence below evil3:28

  2. 21:13AI leaders may ask for regulation for their own reasons2:33Up next
  3. 31:33Thiel sees companies split between founders and bureaucracy2:49
  4. 5 more moments in the full episode

Transcript

From the transcript The Builders with Walter Isaacson publishes with the episode.

  1. 47:05

    Peter Robinson And these people do matter, these builders. Does it matter that they avoid being evil? Yes. Yeah.

  2. 47:20

    Well, I think yes on all these versions of that. Of course, you know, there's always a lot of complexity to that too where, you know, maybe appearing not to be evil is just a fake PR stunt at this point. And so maybe, you know, Bill Gates is into virtue signaling. Elon Musk is into vice signaling. And in our world, maybe you're more honest if you vice signal than if you virtue signal. So maybe honesty is a good thing.

  3. 47:54

    So you're actually a better person if you vice signal than if you virtue signal. So there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of complexity to it. You know, I always, I always, again, this is not a pro-evil argument I'm about to make, but the qualifier that I always give on it is always a question, what's the antonym of good? And is it evil as in morally evil? Or is it bad as an incompetent, you know, let's say a Ferrari is an evil car because it doesn't get many miles to the gallon and, uh, whatever a lot of our Trabi, the Eastern block cars that don't work are worse than a golf cart. That's a bad card breaks down all the time. And so it's better to be good than evil, but maybe if you're evil, you're at least competent and at least you're not bad.

  4. 48:42

    And the thing that. even with all the demonization of people like Elon, you know, where they get in some context, constantly described as evil and also irrelevant because of this, you know, we say there are no individuals, but to the extent they're described as evil, they're at least not described as bad. And if we're in a world full of, you know, bland bureaucrats running these companies, you know.

  5. 49:10

    Well, wait a minute. Wouldn't you rather bland bureaucrats than evil people? Well, if the bland bureaucrat stands for bad, it's incompetent. The evil person gets something done. What side would you be on for that? I'm ranking these. I'm good over evil. But evil is better than bad. By the way, this is the difference between the Faust of Goethe versus the Faust of Marlowe. In Marlow's Faust, Faust is kind of this fake scientist.

  6. 49:43

    He's a fraud. He's a magician, sort of a trickster, a fake alchemist. He rips people off. He is a bad scientist. And he goes straight to hell. In Goethe's Faust, Faust is kind of, he works with the devil, so it's this evil place where he gets the knowledge. Then, you know, it does stuff. It does more good than evil. And Goethe's Faust gets saved. So, yes, I take... You know, I don't want to be, I don't think of myself as the devil in Faust, and I don't think of myself as Faust even. But I prefer the sentiment of a Goethe to that of a Marlowe.