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How Sovereign Wealth Funds Create Alpha w/Peter Madsen

Peter Madsen argues that factor-aware allocations, smaller venture funds and lower-fee structures can help a small sovereign fund pursue alpha.

How I Invest · David Weisburd

  • Peter Madsen is CIO of the Utah School & Institutional Trust Funds Office (SITFO).

The best minutes

  1. 2:01Passive benchmarks can concentrate risk as small caps changePro pick 5 min
  2. 15:55Smaller venture funds have a more achievable path to high returnsPro pick 4 min
  3. 23:00Co-invest structures can reduce private-market fee drag4 min

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Also worth watching

  1. 7:41SITFO used equal weights, then shifted small caps to private equity4 min
  2. 11:41Factor analysis reveals risks hidden across asset classes4 min
  3. 27:11AI gathers manager diligence while investment decisions stay human5 min

Skip the two-minute career origin, the venture-education and sourcing discussion, and the brief sovereign-fund mechanics and closing.

Full analysis · 6 min read

Real Alpha · Nov 8

Peter Madsen says SITFO shifted small caps over about five years

  • SITFO has moved small-cap exposure toward private equity over about five years.
  • Madsen is unsure today’s small caps still resemble the companies behind the old premium.
  • The shift is a thesis to test against private-market costs, access, and distributions.

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Read the rest of the analysis

7 sections, the 3 other voices it tests Madsen against, and what it means for you. Every episode we cut gets one.

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5:44

Today’s small-cap index may not hold the old premium

Madsen thinks market structure has changed, and is unsure today’s small caps resemble those of past decades. That doubt matters because a cheap index is not necessarily a basket of young, growing companies.

Weisburd relayed CIO Brad Conger of Hurdle Callahan’s view that small public companies differ from a decade ago. Conger pointed to SPAC targets, fallen angels, and listings that should not have gone public. Madsen replied that he agreed, adding that strong companies now tend to list at massive scale.

For example, Madsen still considers concentrated microcaps that might be acquired and biotech hedge funds within small-cap exposure. But he no longer treats broad small-cap cheapness as enough for a long-term overweight.

“I'm not sure the small caps of today are the same as the small caps of years past.”
5:48

Our read

The old size premium is a market hypothesis, not an automatic index rule. Investors must separate valuation from company quality and market structure.

3:46

Passive benchmarks can concentrate the risk they mute

Madsen does not reject passive exposure. SITFO keeps some for liquidity, but he says benchmarks tend to grow more concentrated over cycles.

He calls choosing passive an active decision. It may reduce tracking error and management work. But that does not necessarily diversify risks the investor wants to control.

For example, SITFO uses rules-based public-equity strategies that weight value, momentum, and quality, then hold selected names. Madsen describes these as broad exposure with a beta of one, not as a hedge against every benchmark risk.

This middle ground still carries tracking error. It substitutes explicit rules for either pure benchmark ownership or discretionary manager selection.

“They tend to be momentum in nature”
3:53

Our read

The issue is whether benchmark concentration matches the portfolio’s purpose. Rules can create a middle path, but they still need an explicit risk budget.

9:35

SITFO shifted small caps over about five years

SITFO began with an equal-weight perspective, then used quantitative work to stress-test its choices. Madsen says the initial portfolio came out fairly close to equal-weighted.

The approach was not mechanical. The team considered expected returns, available resources, and land-based revenues, mostly oil, gas, and real-estate development. It then reduced small-cap exposure and directed it toward private equity over about five years.

Madsen calls Sharpe optimization a perverse indicator when inputs are uncertain, returns are non-normal, or mean reversion matters. It can favor investments near a historical peak rather than the return the institution needs.

He says accepting volatility can be reasonable when the portfolio needs higher returns. But SITFO’s perpetual capital still has cash-flow obligations, with distributions going directly to Utah public schools. Land-revenue inflows also require forecasting so distributions stay manageable.

Our read

This is an institutional allocation, not a universal argument for private equity. Boards should connect return requirements to inflows, payout commitments, and tolerance for volatility.

14:15

Factor analysis tests whether diversification is real

SITFO groups investments by purpose, then tests their factor exposures against benchmarks. A growth category can include public and private equity without making legal structure the investment thesis.

The test is whether asset-class labels hide shared risks. Madsen said private debt and real estate can carry equity beta, while infrastructure and real estate can carry interest-rate exposure.

Take data centers inside real estate. A holdings list can show the sector, while factor analysis can test whether its risks move with other exposures.

Madsen describes the approach as cheaper and easier to implement than a holdings-based risk system. Still, results depend on chosen factors and benchmarks, so the model makes assumptions visible rather than settling judgment.

Our read

The method tests whether diversification exists beneath the labels. It also exposes assumptions, which matters when private-market returns can obscure shared risks.

18:46

Smaller venture funds make large outcomes more plausible

SITFO initially set venture aside because its trustees shared a concern about access to famous, capacity-constrained firms. Madsen later built a philosophy around earlier-stage funds, after local seed investors presented their case.

He sees a different return equation in pre-seed, seed, and sometimes Series A deals. When valuations are arguably cheaper, smaller checks can buy more ownership for a given amount of capital. As an example, Madsen said a $100 million fund kind of needs five unicorns for five times. That is a scale illustration, not a forecast of repeated outcomes.

He also likes collaborative checks from solo GPs with strong networks. But Madsen offers no hit rate for these funds, so fund size alone does not establish an edge.

In October 2026, Gavin Ezekowitz on How I Invest said networked small funds can stay close to founders. The site’s summary says allocators should test whether that sourcing edge will last.

In November 2026, Jack Selby on How I Invest called mega-funds “a different asset class” and “a different bucket.” The site’s summary, not Selby directly, says LPs may need distinct benchmarks.

Matthew Harris’s October 2026 How I Invest moment describes Bain holding annual investment at $500 million to keep pacing even. That is a pacing comparison, not evidence for SITFO’s selection approach.

“the smaller the check size, the smaller the fund size, the smaller the deal size.”
19:06

Our read

Smaller funds can make target ownership and fund-level returns more plausible, not certain. Judge access, portfolio construction, and pacing separately.

25:54

Co-invest terms matter most where returns are capped

SITFO’s commercial partnerships exchange commitments for combinations of research, database access, software, revenue share, or discounted fees. Madsen says outside underwriting can extend a small team’s capacity.

He sees a particular case in private income, debt, and real assets, where he says upside is often limited. Co-invest accounts can avoid management fees, carry, and fees on committed capital.

Weisburd cited Steve Kaplan’s estimate that two and twenty reduces annual IRR by six percentage points. In the host’s hypothetical, splitting exposure evenly between traditional funds and zero-fee co-invests implies three percentage points across the portfolio.

That is the host’s illustration, not SITFO’s reported result. Madsen agreed with the fee argument, but the episode gives no SITFO performance comparison to verify that uplift. Partners receive commitments and other value in exchange, and terms vary.

Our read

Lower fees can matter most when strategy returns are capped. But fee savings are not proof of alpha unless net results, access costs, and full terms are measured.

28:48

AI can clear diligence work, not make the call

SITFO is implementing AI to gather and organize manager diligence, including ownership, fees, and legal terms. Madsen said confidentiality concerns initially kept manager materials out of public ChatGPT tools.

Madsen describes a workflow that applies SITFO’s own criteria to meeting notes, manager documents, and legal materials. For example, it can surface ownership structure or flag terms in an LPA.

Madsen says the tool does not make investment decisions. Its intended return is analyst time for reading, discussion, and judgment.

He also said it was early, with no real success stories yet. The episode reports no measured time savings or accuracy, leaving its promised leverage unverified.

Our read

Here, AI supports diligence rather than portfolio judgment. Measure extraction accuracy and time returned before counting it as added team capacity.

What it means for you

  1. Audit small-cap exposure. Compare index holdings with the smaller, growing companies the old premium is meant to represent. Separate valuation from company quality and market structure.
  2. Test venture sizing. Track ownership at entry, fund size, and portfolio concentration across venture managers. Ask each manager how its network produces access.
  3. Model co-invest costs. Compare net cash flows, fee terms, commitment periods, and access requirements. Treat the host’s six-percentage-point estimate as a sensitivity, not SITFO’s result.
  4. Check AI diligence. Sample extracted ownership, fee, and legal terms against source documents. Measure error rates and time saved before treating the tool as added capacity.

What to watch

  • Whether small-cap indexes again contain the kinds of earlier-stage growing companies Madsen says are less common today.
  • Whether private-equity allocations deliver expected returns after fees and cash-flow needs.
  • Whether SITFO’s AI diligence tools show verified accuracy and time savings, which Madsen said were not yet proven.

Send this to the CIO and investment committee reviewing private-market allocations.

9:39

Watch the minute where Madsen dates the shift at about five years

Written by Real Alpha from the episode's transcript and the other moments it links, then checked against the transcript. Quotes are the speaker's exact words.

Minute by minute

  1. 0:00Leaving hedge funds opened a new path

    Peter Madsen said he left Cube Capital after investors increasingly preferred private markets to hedge funds and the firm decided to wind down. A recruiter later connected him with Utah, where he became the first hire in a new effort to professionalize the trust's investment operation.

  2. 2:39Mean reversion favors out-of-favor markets

    Madsen said mean reversion remains real, particularly in active management, where results can come in waves. He recommended investigating managers and markets that have been out of favor or are down.

  3. 3:24Passive benchmarks make an active choice

    Madsen said passive benchmarks can become more concentrated over a market cycle and may mainly mitigate career or benchmark-relative risk. SITFO uses some passive investments for liquidity, but also uses rules-based public-equity strategies that combine factors such as value, momentum and quality.

  4. 5:08Madsen questions today's small-cap premium

    Madsen said he expects value to return but sees its performance as cyclical, with monetary policy and AI excitement extending the current growth cycle. He questioned whether today's small companies resemble those of the past, noting that fewer strong companies go public at a small size.

  5. 7:16An equal-weight start shifted toward private equity

    Madsen said SITFO began asset allocation from an equal-weighted portfolio, then used optimization and stress tests while accounting for its resources and incoming land revenues, mostly from oil and gas and real estate development. As its private-equity program matured, it reduced small-cap exposure and redirected it to private equity over about five years. He argued that optimizing for Sharpe ratio can rely too heavily on historical inputs and that a portfolio can accept volatility when it needs higher returns.

  6. 11:41Factor analysis reveals portfolio-wide risk

    Madsen described SITFO's approach as purpose-driven: broad categories give the team flexibility, while factor analysis helps it understand the risks across public and private holdings. He said the team wants either intentional factor overweights or neutral exposure with a high residual. SITFO moved from MPI to Venn, which he said offered a more user-friendly interface for its small team.

  7. 15:55Smaller venture funds can target larger outcomes

    Madsen said SITFO initially set venture aside because it expected strong performance to require access to well-known firms. He later favored early-stage managers and smaller funds, arguing that smaller checks and deals can make a 5x outcome more attainable. He said a $100,000,000 fund may need five unicorns to reach 5x.

  8. 20:12Fund-of-funds partnerships can build access

    Madsen said SITFO's small team found it difficult to build venture exposure and select managers on its own. In hindsight, he said it could have used a fund-of-funds or collaborative model earlier, then built its own capabilities over time. SITFO later worked with fund-of-funds as scout or sourcing partners.

  9. 23:00Co-invest structures reduce fee drag

    Madsen said commercial partnerships can provide research, data, software or advisory support and free SITFO to focus on less conventional investments. In some private-market co-invest accounts, he said SITFO avoids management fees, carry and fees on committed capital. He described the resulting reduction in fee drag as structure alpha.

  10. 27:00AI can accelerate diligence, not decide

    Madsen said confidentiality concerns initially kept SITFO from using ChatGPT with manager materials. Its newer AI workflow does not make investment decisions; it gathers and organizes diligence information, including ownership, fees and terms that may be red flags. He said this gives the team more time to assess a manager's culture and investment philosophy.

  11. 31:42Permanent capital links returns to school payouts

    Madsen said SITFO has perpetual capital and serves K–12 public schools, with payments going directly to the schools. The team also has to forecast land-revenue inflows and manage cash flows so that distributions are not disruptive.

Published Dec 12, 2025.

Transcript · 29 min read

How I Invest, hosted by David Weisburd, with Peter Madsen.

From the transcript How I Invest publishes with the episode.

  1. Peter, before SITFO, you ran money in London via pension plans. What drew you to building a sovereign wealth fund in Utah? Well, candidly, the the last dying breaths, if you will, of the fund to fund industry, were taking place. And we although where I was working prior, Cube Capital, we had a strong track record, strong team. When I joined, we were managing about 1,000,000,000 across some direct funds and fund to fund strategy, And but after about five years, we were still at about 1,000,000,000, you know, money coming in, being raised as part of our expansion into North America and some other markets outside of just, The UK.

  2. And the, but at that same, there were a few, like closely linked investors that all decided they'd rather be in private markets than hedge funds. And so we, the partners decided to wind down and that gave me a nice long runway of, you know, where to spend my next half of my career, so to speak. So I went to the headhunter person and I said, Hey, I'd like to be CIO in like a mountain town or beach town at a college university or foundation. And she literally laughed in my face and said, and everyone else. And then it just a month or maybe not even two months after she reached back out and said, you know, you're not gonna believe this, but Utah has, the sovereign wealth fund and they're looking, you know, the money's old as I like to say, but either there was no office, so that the effort was new in terms of professionalizing it.

  3. And I would be the first hire if I were lucky enough to get it. I had, while I was at RVK, I had, we had clients that were this very same type of entity or structure, and I worked really closely with the state of Oklahoma, You know, even worked lobbying to try and help them amend their constitution to help, you know, modernize that trust. So I had a lot of experience with the potential and, you know, how it could grow or be structured, especially if it was going to be brand new. And, you know, sure enough, it's, you know, it's ten years later now, but it worked out that it was an entrepreneurial endeavor, though, you know, in, you know, being part of the state of Utah, still quite entrepreneurial, still a huge challenge.

Read the whole transcript
  1. At theCUBE, you seem to have a good fund in a bad market.

  2. Peter Madsen · 5 min

    “They're sort of a active decision and that you chose to participate in passive. They tend to be momentum in nature”

  3. And our focus in private markets is really, you know, along the same lines that maybe the small cap premium is actually in private equity in very small micro lower middle market and lower type names. I was gonna ask you that exact question, which is if you believe this, how do you operationalize that strategy in the market? You would essentially shift some of your allocation from publics into privates, into private equity.

  4. Peter Madsen · 4 min

    “the Sharpe ratio is a perverse indicator. So I think if you're optimizing on Sharpe ratio”

  5. Peter Madsen · 4 min

    “we just wanna make sure that we have a holistic view of the portfolio, what risks we're bearing, and whether or not we want to bear them”

  6. Let's talk about your private book. You go pretty far down the risk curve on the venture side. You like funds under a $100,000,000 oftentimes.

  7. Peter Madsen · 4 min

    “even if you have a $100,000,000 fund, you kind of need five unicorns to get a five X, right?”

  8. Taking a step back, how did you go about educating yourself in the venture space? Is this through the fund to fund construct, and what's some best practices for an LP that wants to educate themselves on a new space? Yeah. Regrettably, we didn't start out with a fund to fund adventure. I think in hindsight, you know, we're a small team. We're trying to be clever and implement our ideas, and we work with a a mid sized consulting group, and it's really hard to, try and build out a portfolio across all the potential opportunities for investing.

  9. And arguably, we should have started with like, I speak to kind of the collaborative model we use now at, you know, maybe a later point in the conversation, but either a a more collaborative model or just allocating to a fund to fund to make sure you're in the market, you know, getting some decent exposure, getting your diversification from those, you know, asset classes that are harder to implement, and then over time, building up your experience and capability of I think that's how most people do it. That's how we should have done it. We spent, you know, it's kind of a funny story. We we one of the fund to funds we did was China, venture in China, it's early stage, met all our criteria, except we were like, you know, we'll never get to China in terms of being good at selected venture managers.

  10. So the fund to fund was a pretty kind of a no brainer if you wanted China exposure anyway, and it was supported by our consultants. That was something we did at twenty seventeen ish or, you know, plus or minus, and at that conference, met someone who I was describing, you know, this conversation we're having, and he said, oh, you need to meet this guy, Michael Kim, and I couldn't find it. I could, I spent a decent amount of effort trying to get in touch with Sindhana and it wasn't until a few years later that we actually synced up and ended up, you know, partnering with them, but the, the amount, the, the venture community, the GPs there, the fund to funds and some of the advisors, there's a lot of data that they're working with.

  11. It seems, you know, maybe it's just, you know, my, you know, a familiarity or recency bias, but it seems like since Sondana has grown in size and garnered attention, there's been a lot more thoughtfulness around fund size, portfolio construction, and now when I'm on LinkedIn, I often see a lot of data driven analyses around these topics, and it'll always all point to the same thing, but just back to the the actual question of how you educate yourself, I think there's a ton of stuff online that's data oriented in nature that that makes, you know, that that lays all of that out for you. The manager selection part really difficult.

  12. We like I said, we ended up partnering with a couple of fund of funds as scout funds or sourcing, partnerships, if you will, just because of the sheer volume and difficulty in in taking care of of the portfolio while also trying to find, you know, fifty, seventy five million dollar funds, you know, run by a single person or a couple of people. Tell me about this collaborative model that you alluded to.

  13. Peter Madsen · 4 min

    “we're able to structure co invest accounts that are, with minimal expenses.”

  14. Kaplan Shore Index, and he figured out that two and twenty on a per year IRR basis was actually six percentage points. So to your point, if you have half of your funds in a two and twenty half in a co invest was zero and zero, you're actually getting 3% alpha across the entire portfolio. It was pretty significant alpha when it comes to co invest. 100 agree. You're also using AI tools to screen decks. What what are these AI tools, and how are you using them strategically?

  15. Peter Madsen · 5 min

    “please don't give me an answer to a decision, but please highlight what the ownership structure looks like”

  16. than people are pretty excited about the leverage that's supporting us. What practically is different about investing out of a sovereign wealth fund versus, say, a pension fund or an endowment?

  17. Each entity is going to be different, right, in terms of at least marginally different. But for us, we're a permanent capital or perpetual capital. And, you know, all sovereign wealth funds are, but our beneficiaries, like a lot of other Western states are 22 Western states that have had, or still have sovereign wealth funds and the beneficiaries are K through 12 public schools. And in our case, you know, that check goes directly to those schools. And so that's one aspect is thinking about the distribution and thinking about it all the way to the end beneficiary. And then the other part of the ledger is the capital coming in from land revenues.

  18. So we have to monitor or try and forecast or manage those income and cash flows, and then think about making sure those distributions are not disruptive. Well, Peter, this has been an absolute masterclass in how to invest like a sovereign wealth fund. Thanks so much for jumping on the podcast. I'm looking forward to continuing this conversation live. appreciate it. Thanks for the invitation. Good conversation. That's it for today's episode of how I invest. If this conversation gave you new insights or ideas, do me a quick favor.

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