Stallone: Rocky Secrets, Rambo Stories & Schwarzenegger Rivalry | Stick to Football EP 154

Osman. Russian Osman, yeah. Canceler. Eric Gates. Pele, people forget what Pele was in there. Eric Gates. Eric Gates. Bobby. Bobby Moore, yeah. John Walk. Canceler. Did you say John Walk? There's a Yugoslav player in there. There's a Yugoslav, like a... Ah, shit. I mean, I look at this game today. I was looking at it earlier. No, I actually don't know. You mentioned Pele, didn't you? Yeah. There's a player from... Ozzy Ardiles. Ozzy Ardiles, yeah. Who's the goalkeeper that, who's the goalkeeper that... Broke his arm. ..has the arm snapped? Oh, of course, so that Silvestre Salon could go in goal.

Yeah, Silvestre could go in goal. His technique wasn't great, was it, as a goalkeeper, do you remember? No, you could see that he wasn't really a goalkeeper, yeah. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney+. I was completely anonymous, no? Now everyone coming out, you're him, you're him, you're him, you're him. I make sure you want to go right into the popcorn. This is the kind of woman that you would marry, she'd write you a song, go out and build you a log cabin, you know, milk the cow, everything. And then get clammed up. Bang, down, stunned. Thank you. The fight was 11 seconds, including the count.

you're either a convincing person as an actor like it just comes out and you're not going to make it i'll never forget i was coming off a talk show there's one woman we like rocky we don't like you Wow. Here we go. Oh, I didn't know that. OK. Thank you. Hello, lovely to meet you. Pleased to meet you. Sure. Nice to meet you. Thank you. Ian, nice to meet you. Pleasure. Wow. I can't believe it. I feel like we have royalty. It is royalty. You've been staying here? Yeah, we're upstairs somewhere. Are you enjoying it, or...? Yeah, well, we got in late last night, so far so good. And we'll be here, probably, until Sunday.

Then I get back and start... Tulsa King on Monday. Yes. Tulsa King on Monday, yeah. Busy, busy. Are you having a lot of interviews about the book and everything? No, I mean, not really. We've... Yeah, they're profound interviews. Like, long two-hour one of the New York Times every day. Oh. So it isn't a bunch of those. We used to do, like, 70 a day. Yes. 70 and it'd be like three minutes each three minutes you know that kind of thing they don't do that anymore the junkets yeah i hope you prefer the longer ones i do because the other ones they're going to ask you the same question yes and they have like five they have to ask what motivates you to keep going you know it's not like i'm trying to prove anything it's just the nature of the beast i've actually tried like what is the management of leisure time like how do you do that some people go fly fishing hunt hike you still write you still right yeah yeah i love the right no actually i hate to write but i love the results right and writing to me is um it's almost mathematics with words as opposed to just typing right you'll be right why don't you just talk into a recorder right because it really is a skill set you know In writing, it's constant reduction until you get the real nectar.

I think it's actually been physically proven that cursive is flows. They're different as opposed to, or maybe that's just me trying to defend ignorance on how to use a keyboard. Which I never learned in life. It would have been a lot easier. That's what your wife used to do. You used to write it up and she used to type it up. I was all, you know the typewriters, you know, click, click, click, yeah, one of those. But yeah, I think there's something to it. How do you switch off? Switch off? Yeah. I don't think it works that way. I think you find a distraction, and that's called off. You're like watching a sport, watching a movie, and then, okay, I woke it in my head a little bit for two hours, and then you're back.

It's like, you know, you study all these Eastern philosophies and meditation, J. Krishnamurti and all that stuff. It never shuts off. No. Which is a curse. I call it roof brain chatter. It doesn't stop. So you're always on. I think everyone is. You know, I think this is the human dilemma. Like, stop. So you're constantly... That's what I think drives people really crazy when they're dwelling on a problem and they're dwelling and it builds and it manifests itself and it festers like stop because you thinking about it is only going to cause you grief just wait till the results it is like but the constant manifestation of what what if what if what if what if how long did it take you to develop that coping mechanism to deal with problems in that way and switch away from them oh were you affected in your early No, probably about 75 years.

I'm joking. This is something that's come recently. Right. Yeah, because I would confront problems rather than avoid them. I would actually attack them. Or if you felt something was a slight or an insult or whatever, you become reactive. And now it's like, nah, take a day, take a day or two. you know it's the pleasure combating that person or is not worth the pleasure is not worth the pain of constantly dwelling on it so like yeah but that's a constant minor routine system by it where you I've been raised with insults. I'm in the insult business. The arts are the insult business because they're constantly insulting your ability, your this, your integrity, your writing, your painting styles. Constantly.

It's a lot of failure. There's a few of us in that one, aren't there? Yes, yes. It's a lot of failure. Tons of failure. And that you really have to make friends with. Is it them? Is it me? Is it them? Is it me? And I would say the best artist, the most sensitive one, you'll never see because they can't handle it. So you get these kind of journeyman tough guys out here. Like Picasso was an animal. Seriously, think about it. This guy here, he did, what, 250,000 pieces of art, and he's known for 2,000. So that's like .003 batting average where you're successful. so he understood that this one is not as good as that one now that one was better oh you were better in your 30s so it's a constant thing and then finally he didn't give a shit it's like yeah i'm gonna gain weight take my shirt off and smoke cigarettes and that's it do you give a shit uh yeah for sure you know still that still now yeah yeah yeah you know it's If you're a very sensitive person, you want to feel as though you're administering something that is worthy and people are like it.

And then when you actually do something, and people are like, that's fucking terrible. That's horrible. Like that movie stinks. But it's not as though we sat down and said, how can we spend millions of dollars to make a horrible product that tastes terrible? I mean it's just these things happen and quite often the performer has to take out of the chin and boy that's not easy so after all the success that you've had in your career even right now you still have that feeling of having to prove yourself in well it's not proof it's just that you have to constantly challenge yourself and but it's not like okay I want to prove something to you that would be that would be debilitating because I don't want to put any false gods in front of me the one thing that I I don't know if it was ego or narcissism but I never had like a real role model or someone go guys great and yeah I just felt as though we'll see you know we'll see if you can do that as opposed to I'll never be able to get out of that guy's shadow see what I mean I guess like oh Sean I put false gods before is that kind of a thing and I just I but I also thought that was the height of arrogance too it's like I don't need God I don't

need religion you're on your own that's bullshit I know but it's that when you're totally alone I thought this is gonna be on you don't expect any divine intervention. Don't expect this. Don't expect a knock on the door. Here's a script. You're done. Nobody cares about you. They'll step over you. And having that knowledge of being completely disposable was invigorating. I didn't charm myself or delude myself into thinking you mean anything. You don't. Yeah. Because she ain't cooking up with her. You know? Everyone's got their own issue. Do you see yourself as a risk taker? Yeah. Big time, yeah.

Yeah. That I like. I'm not a gambler in the actual clinical sense, but yeah, risk taker. For example, we get in trouble for this. AI is there to stay. And I wanted to do half human, half AI. They put it together. And, of course, everyone was going nuts. I go, that's happening, guys. People are now selling their images and this and eventually there are 20 Elvis's avatars. There is happening so I would take that risk even though you get blasted bombastically from the creative community and they're right. They're right but we can't stop. It's this avalanche. It's just out of our control. If you don't go with it, you will trample by it, I think.

Do you think that's why you've managed to stay relevant, because you've always moved with the times? You're talking about AI at the stage you're at in your life. You wouldn't have thought someone would continue to keep you relevant. I don't know if you've noticed, but I think on Instagram, TikTok, you know, have these little vignettes in 40 seconds, a minute, whatever, and for some reason, they put so many aren't of me, but age-appropriate, so what I'm running is like, they're not making you up to be a gazelle. They're thinking, why are they doing this? I mean, this is time intensive. Not one, but maybe five different sites.

And I think what they're doing is actually wetting the palate of the public. There was a situation, Quibi, a few years ago, there were some people like Jeffrey Katzberg, other people lost billions of dollars in a experiment called Quibi, which was many things on your phone, 10 minutes, five minute movies. It was just a little too soon, I believe. So that I'm very fascinated with because the time expansion of the brain is becoming diminishing. So since today, to get them for two hours, lock in, you're possible. tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work.

Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's go.gle slash workspace with Gemini. You know that feeling when too many things fall through the cracks? Monday.com was built for that gap. The AI work platform where people and agents work side by side to deliver more together create your first monday agent today at monday.com mod.com is changing the way people battle excessive fatigue ever hit a wall in the middle of the day and a third coffee just doesn't do it anymore here's what's actually happening coffee only briefly blocks adenosine the chemical that tires you out when it stops working your system is flooded and you crash. Modafinil is a prescription treatment that works in a completely different way. Modafinil works by stimulating multiple receptors in the brain associated with wakefulness, including dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, histamine, glutamate, and orexin. It's a more complete solution that gives you 10 to 12 hours of steady focus and energy to learn more go to mod.com fill out your intake form meet with a license provider and if approved mod alert ships straight to your door go to mod.com to get started that's mod.com have you watched this new aasis documentary or what uh on disney plus no not yet but the boys

They're not happy at the moment, are they? No. They're a bit angry about football, aren't they? Not at all. All the rest of it. But they must... I'd be happy with the documentary, though, because they've got a new tour coming up. They have got a new tour coming up. About their last tour, the documentary, innit? I must admit, I did go to Wembley last year. So did I. It was pretty special. You were to Wembley? I went with Jack to Wembley. We had a great time. It was good. It was good. It was a bit nostalgic. Is there any relationship with football that you think reminds you a bit of Liam and Noel?

Me and Cara? You didn't spend as many years apart, though, did you? We didn't. We didn't. Is there a song by Oasis that, like, when you hear it, takes you back to a particular time? Do you know something? Masterplan, because I actually was learning to play guitar from the age, I think, 27 to 31, and I used to love the Masterplan. It's actually a song that I would consider having at my funeral, not that I'll be there. Well, I will be there, actually. Do you have her favourite gig of all time? The best gig, absolutely, I've remembered the best gig I ever went to watch. It was with David Beckham and Fabian Barthes.

It was ten years of noise and confusion, tour and it was at the Apollo and Noel did a little acoustic set in the middle and it was one of the best concerts I've ever watched in my life it was incredible in the Apollo watching 3000 just really tight it was incredible that night honestly they were brilliant don't miss this one Oasis, Don't Look Back in Anger a Hulu original film new and exclusive on Disney Plus There's too many Mancunians on this show. Football, football. Football. It's all we talk about. Every day. So, come and join us. On Overlap Daily. This is easy, this. Every week, Monday to Friday.

From 4pm. Watch on YouTube. And listen wherever you get your podcasts. It's just laughing. It's football. Football. Football. In that order. Overlap Daily. We'll see you soon. We do this thing called Mythbusters where I read out a statement and you'll obviously know the answer, we don't know the answer, but we've got a debate whether it's true or not. Your favourite food is raw eggs. Do we think that's true or false? Or still. It's terrible, isn't it? I'm saying no. It's false. I'm saying... It's false. No, you're definitely right. It's a no. The eggs were actually a manifestation of having no money.

Yes. It's a little refrigerator, so you buy them, set them on the windowsill in the morning them that if the pigeons they can get to them sooner but no and I thought god if I do this in Rocky yeah and this is what I used to do every day but it's not healthy at all and they go how can you do that and I said well it goes down in one string yes it's just like do well you're doing that to help build your physique no I don't think it helped I think if anything you probably borderline and Seminella disease. Yeah, it was very prominent at the time. It was like, wow, everybody said, well, I'm going to do six eggs.

Do you remember it? That's right. OK, next one. You own artwork by Picasso and Warhol. I would say that's that. Because he mentioned Picasso. Yeah, it's true. They're worth a few quid. Yeah, we're going to say, yes, it's true. Yeah, that's my weakness, yeah, art. Ah, yeah. And I do a lot of more contemporary artists who are becoming the new. you know what I mean you have George Kondo and there's Rishi Johnson and all these different I mean this generation is Picasso how much is a Picasso Sona Warhol, if you don't mind me asking. How much is it worth? Am I allowed to ask that question? About 40 million.

Wow. No way. Both of them together, or one of them? Yeah, just one. Wow. Listen, I had a collection one time, and you won't believe this. I think if you were ever going to make your great fortune, sans technology, in the middle 80s, I could buy a Monet. This is great. I'd pay $130, right? Yeah. You buy Picassas, you buy Renoir, the Haystacks, it's a very famous piece, $100, $100, $100, Francis Bacon, $75,000. The point is, and then I would sell it for $300,000. Not bad, right? 10 years later, 12 years later, guys come back and try to sell it to me for $75,000. I'm not joking. and so the point is if you got art don't sell it unless you have to pay the mortgage because it's appreciating it doesn't cause you don't have to feed it but yeah I had a collection that you can't replace because of the shift in the clients it's unbelievable I don't forget there's one Monet 110 grand it's called the haystacks right I paid up like 110 guy wanted to sell it back to for a hundred to thirty meat I'm just it's like in the ambitious order right into the popcorn and then you watch it how much do you love your watches we have to actually we're obsessed with watches around the same you can make a lot from watches is it true oh yeah okay some of these go up ten times yeah

that's what I'm going next where you going and we come with it the vintage The vintage Rolex store by John Silver, it's vintage watches, and they only sell old Rolexes. And for some reason, I fixated on a watch called the Stella, which is a 36, but they're hand-painted. So they're, and I've got just about the whole collection, so I'm going to go check it out. Or you think you do, and then it's knocking, and you go, hey, I found one more, and it's Okay, next one. You've broken your neck on a film set. Yeah. Wow. Three times. Wow. You always done your own stunts back in the day? Yeah. Actually, it's interesting.

So I was doing a fight scene in Expendables with Steve Austin. He threw me the bottle of bricks that broke. And it hurt. So I go to the doctor. they go oh you broke your neck but again like what do you mean again he goes yeah you have double auto fusions what that means guys is that i didn't realize that at the time i was doing the bench press when i was maybe 21 in a wrestler's breech which means you're always putting all your weight on the back it's really ridiculous yes hey it snaps and i think oh i just strained it a little bit then my I was right I couldn't move my head so literally for maybe five weeks and I take a towel twist it and walk around go by some eggs cut his cheese come back and then do the same thing Wow and it I didn't realize I'd broken my neck but I couldn't afford to have it fixed so it auto fuses in a while 17 degrees forward does that cause you a lot of problems now maybe injuries that you've got oh yeah yeah yeah my wife is like a nurse one of only two actors in history to have starred in a box office number one film across six consecutive decades yeah yeah yeah true true oh yeah true I didn't know it, but you know, who's the other one? Harrison Wow

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18 plus TNCs apply. You mentioned about movies being hit and miss sometimes, but also when you're doing a movie, you're going, this is happening, this is working. Do you get that feeling? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How soon? Some that are really enjoyable always seem to bomb. There's some kind of manifestation that if it's really tough, it works. When you're really enjoying yourself, it doesn't make it. It's weird. Yeah, but Rocky was really tired. Did you feel about that? Because that was your first, that was the one that you... It was, the first one was, it was like 25 days, so it was a blur. It really was fast.

But I was so green, so naive, I didn't understand the ramifications of, like, this is a good scene, a bad scene. You just did a scene. I didn't have the sophistication. But would there benefit to that as well? Yes, that's my point. Right. So what you see in that film is just raw, trying to express yourself, not saying, hey, how about that angle? Yes.

just combine those two and luckily it happened you speak about fighting from the very beginning and your childhood you certainly had to do that didn't you I remember reading about it and it was very sad even reading about it but how difficult was that that start in life watch out Sylvester Roy doesn't like sad stories no it's not sad it's just it no you just became you adapt to it you go oh like there's no love coming you say this and there's a punch coming you just that's your life so it wasn't as though every day was oh god you thought about it he just knew what it was and you didn't expect anymore period wow i mean it's i'll never forget this time i don't know stupid story anyway i i'm talking to my father we're having an argument because i got thrown out of school again because i'm adhd whatever it is i'm just i cannot focus at all and i'm always looking out the window like this kind of a thing and that was before

they really understood him to put a student in a special class because he cannot work with other students he's a distraction in other words so he's yelling me yelling me yelling me and i and then finally he goes what'd you say i said stop yelling jesus christ i got it He went downstairs and he got an axe and he came back upstairs and said, get out of that fucking chair. I said, okay. And then he goes, wha! And when I tell you, it was, I never saw it. It was a splinter, the next time you'll be sitting there. But it was just business as usual. How old was you? Yeah, how old? How old was you then?

About nine, ten years. Wow. But I'm just telling you that it was, I had seen that kind of stuff. That was normal. That was normal. That was normal, yeah. I mean, you would never get away with it today. like even my mother and I just you know she's strangled you know it just happens all the time but did he put some kind of beast inside of me that when the time came to play Rocky and Rambo there's a certain thing and I can see it in my expression when you're like I'm serious and I'm watching like other guys doing fight films it's just not that they're not feeling that no it's not the eyes I said I went well thank you you know you put something in there that I couldn't possibly conjure up when you read some of the some of the stories when you read in the book about your parents and how they were did did you have any kind of reckoning with them did you I had him you know him her no no I didn't even know she died i mean it was that yeah no it was it was very odd she was funny she was smart she was witty she wanted to be a star right herself yeah yeah i mean she really was unique so whatever sense of humor i definitely got it from her not from him but he was a guy that was just again unrequited professionally he wanted to be something more than a guy cutting hair and he just

to see him as a beautician was how's that possible like you are and you're so he was very very frustrated so we I realized he's dying so I go down and you know he's not he's just a little old man now and I brought him chocolate cake and all these pastries you know because i figured he's not going to be around much longer let's have a party and he really enjoyed that and then he he said you know things like i'm sorry you know and uh you know the main thing is i don't know why but people seem to have some sort of revelation when they know they're on the way up it's i don't i don't know why it takes that But usually that's, I don't know if it's a purging of like, oh shit, wow, I'm going to meet my maker or something, just like, I'm sorry, kind of a thing.

And that felt great, you know what I mean? And you literally lifted him off, the very kind of a thing. He goes, take care of everybody. I go, yeah, keep punching, sit around. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Do you think you chased him being proud of you? Because didn't you get him to appear in one of the ring bells? I know you wanted him to be oh yeah yeah definitely he just he kept trying to insert himself in his own tough way he just couldn't come up hey I'm proud of you is there a part in the movie he just people keep criticizing me because I say he's tough that's kind of a euphemism for it's hard like tough to penetrate not like because it was a different guy was just a tortured guy and he only could express himself with his big hands why was that how do you explain that what was it in their lives parents that made them the way they were with you because he was uh he had a terrible inferiority complex terrible he always felt uneducated and so he would insert himself if you even gave him the slightest slight he would physically react but he would then i would go into his room he's sitting there trying to write like because i started writing now he's like so you it was sweet I mean, he tried, like, the word very had two R's,

you know, that kind of thing. And so I would work with him on that, but it was just that he, I think he wanted to live through me, but it was kind of too late. And, but he was, I could accept him. He was just a very different kind of guy that you don't see anymore. You know, his father was horrible. You know, he was just, you know, with the mustache, cold. I don't think I ever saw him speak to him in 40 years. He's just down at the end of the table, eat, take his hearing aid out and leave, you know. It was that kind of loving family. But again, I'm grateful because maybe that's the formula that worked for me.

You know, I was able to artistically process it. My painting is also, you know, just that kind of volatile stuff. So I'm really grateful in a way. Thanks, Dad. how does life change after the first rocky film everything changed everything changed it changed literally um you know usually a metamorphosis your life has changed you make a few more bucks you buy a car you bring a little bit it's not wow yeah and so i was i literally changed in two hours i was standing outside the theater i was trying to listen and two hours later where I was completely anonymous. Now everyone coming out, you're him, you're him, you're him, you're him.

Was that the first showing or the second showing? First show. No, the first show was a disaster. The sneak preview. Yeah. Yeah. Was that when, what were all the executives saying, this is a disaster? No, they, everyone was very pumped up in the beginning, you know, because there's this thing called the Hollywood circuit, where if you're an elite actor or producer you get the film brought to your house and they all had theaters it's a special kind of club it was working people go, it's really good Really special, oh man, it's a slam dunk. And people like Frank Sinatra, all these people were at their home theater, were loving it.

So when I took it back to New York, to the theater where I was in, I go, oh, this is slam dunk, no problem. And it started to unroll, and I'm watching one person leave, another person leave, and the studio exec is going... it's a big difference when you get into the real world as opposed to the Hollywood world where everything's out darling darling darling you know and they didn't know me and these people were not expecting to see this they thought see a love story it was this guy talking to turtles didn't and that crushed me that crushed me now there's no coming back from this because god they hate it then the studio wanted to pull it they did they were thinking about just pulling the whole thing and releasing it as a second feature at a drive-in remember drive-ins which is like kind of like the death no you're done and a miracle happened a week later and the other theater it really is i don't know how it happened tell the truth because no one really knew what they're going in to see and fight films are not popular with women at all at all and no one was buying my my pleas to describe this as a love story with a guy who's a bad fighter.

That's what it is. There's only two fights, right at the start and at the end. Yeah, there's like six and a half minutes. Yeah. It was. I said it was a love story. I asked you before, do you understand the impact that you had on everybody that was watching that film around the world at that time? To a point, but I swear to God, I'm telling you, on my children, I never really dwelled on it. And to this day, I'm still mystified that children, 10 years old, were influenced by that. This is a guy from the urban depths, not particularly articulate, not particularly cute. What is it? you know and as you were saying it's almost two hours of just watching there's nothing really happening you know really until the very end with the training montage and all that stuff so to answer your question uh it's still a conundrum i i love the idea but i don't think I realized how important that character was yeah I might have lost myself earlier on and believed it was me no it didn't like we like Rocky we're not that impressed with you I'll never forget I was coming off a talk show I didn't say anything that would maybe endear me to the audience because because at that time I know I was not too savvy.

And I'll never forget this one woman, crying in their glasses, and she goes, we like Rocky, we don't like you. Wow. Wow. You think that's because Rocky was somebody that was, he was almost finished, right? He was Lone Shark, and he's almost finished, but he's, because he can box a bit, journeyman boxer, and he's like a normal bloke that just got a chance. Do you think people saw that in them? Very, very modest, relatable, humble. He had in his own kind of like little punchy brain. It was slowed down enough to really understand what Adrian is about. Sensitivity thing, that turtles, a dog, wow. Zoo.

Yeah, how bad can this guy be? Plus, he continues to eat insults and doesn't fight back. So the audience sort of fights for him. Do you realize how many people started to become boxers? I'm from Cork, in Ireland. The amount of kids after that movie want to become boxers. Really? Absolutely. It was a huge, it had a huge impact on people. Oh, thank you so much. I I'm so astounded that here we are 50 years later yeah so I don't I don't know if there is a divine intervention but there's something about that character that it has nothing to do with acting there's nothing to do with like oh it's a hit movie people really take something out of it and believe me guys I wish I could say I was smart enough to go that was a calculated move no it's what people needed at a time program yeah you know the same thing I was going it's a it's an ongoing situation like this people suffering in silence because when you realize you're never going to get a shot and I've said this I don't know if it comes out clear I just want the ability to fail on my own terms like put me in one time I just want to see if I'm fast okay at least I know yeah I'm not fast.

Then you can sort of move on with your life without that nagging feeling, I could have, I could have. No, you couldn't have. So get that out of the way. And I really think it's so important that people, for lack of a better term, get rid of that mystery. I know I could have. That's the hard part. And if you realize you can't, oh, I can, no, all right, maybe I made the right. I've told this story before. Jerry Cooney was like this great white bobe kind of guy who's going to fight at homes. And so he was training in Boston, true story. And he's big, six foot, like two meters. And this biker comes in, big biker, Hells Angel, like the baddest ass in Boston.

He goes, you know, everyone says I could be a heavyweight champion or big arms. He goes, like, 290 pounds. He goes, yeah, I'd like to give it a shot. And they gave him, you know, 10-ounce gloves. When I tell you the fight was 11 seconds, including the count, it was like, I've been in that situation. When the pro turns around and just goes, boom. Wow. You know, it's coming from here, like, wham. These guys, you know, banged down, stunned. Thank you. Thank you. Now I know I made the right choice to be an outlaw. How important was the music, the soundtrack? I mean, it's... It's unreal. See, that's what...

He should have won an Oscar. Yes. It's timeless. Yeah. He had... I mean, he was like me. He was like a long shot. Like half the... No one knew him. and that's all him and not only that they gave him one day to score 99.100% of films are scored on camera in other words the movie is projected with all these time codes very precise cut right there freeze it and they know exactly where it's going to go he had a wall a blank wall and he did all that hoping that it worked everything was in his mind so he didn't see the image of downtown turn it on it's just black wall you know I'll see this one day That whole soundtrack was like less than 20 grand. That he, that was his payment, but he had to pay the band.

That probably made about 1,500 bucks after all was said and done. Isn't that wild? Unbelievable. In the audio book that we did, they finally got him to come out of retirement. It's the first time he's played 50 years. Because after that, he'd be a composer, but he wasn't a piano player. So in the audio book, the music was playing, he's playing it. That's him. Wow. That's the first time he goes, yeah, I'll follow you around, and I'll come in here. So that's his interpretation of those moments. Yeah, yeah. That's amazing. Why have you decided to do this now? Because I think, what's the use of being around here if you can't leave something for the next hungrier person?

I go here's here's my blueprint this is how it went down and maybe there's some instruction I've always said that like what why be a parent or anyone if you're not going to instruct and give them that child your 50 years of knowledge and of course they won't take it but but that's the whole point is to pass on traditions and if you don't what good are you you know you're supposed to bring a child into the world and you're supposed to be you know covet that with as much knowledge as you can that's what you tell the stories to so i thought yeah well at 80 i better get it out you must be very you must be very proud of these movies but also that your longevity what are you most proudest that you've stuck around and you've survived in the industry yeah it's very much so yeah i have um i've had a really rare career i can't believe you know it's it's changing drastically the new actors or whatever i don't know if you're around 10 years that's a good run because we used to make 200 movies a year you know hundreds now you're down to like 20. so if you're not on a streaming show oh great but when that show is over and you work for four years that may be it would a young person be able to do what you did now in 2026 no not a

chance I really believe that films aligned culturally to the times that's just let me simplify if you tried to make the Godfather today there's no Al Pacino, there's no modern brand, you know what I mean? It's a different, there is no young Coppola. It just came and it was a movie of that time. And today, what audience really wants to see The Godfather? You're talking about adults, I'm talking about young people, they go, I don't want to see some 1940s Godfather, Dahlian thing I can't relate to. But back then you could. Same with Rocky. these studios today God bless them are run by the publicity department and it's all about okay what can we sell this for how much can we get out of Germany and France in advances the day of this this movie is not it doesn't quite make sense but I'm going to go you had guys that just took a shot So somebody who'd come along with a script like Rocky and demanded, let me play the part.

It will never happen. Zero chance. Zero chance. The last one that I think you're ever going to see that happen is Good Will Haunting. That's it. And you know, it's just. moment and they also found the one production company that thinks like that but big studios i watched that film two weeks ago i wanted to ask you is there is there is there a role in another film that you look at and you think i wish i had got that yeah all the time no no i was i didn't think i had the uh ability to chops to do coming home john voyd did it you know a paraplegic bet and I'm reading I go I don't know if I can I don't know if I'm good enough so John Voight wins the Oscar then there was a film called Witness with Harrison Ford and I thought wow dealing with an Amish woman a forbidden kind of thing kid right wow didn't do and then romancing the stone yeah you should have done that but I went to Michael Douglas and the thing is that the most fun of course you'll think I'm nuts I've ever had on the film was with Dolly Parton by far it's not even close you can't even find the movie I looked everywhere there's like a snippet on YouTube of a minute and a half. I love that film because it's the one time where I completely

demystified, like, that buffoon is Rambo? Like, that fool is Rocky? I mean, he completely pulled out all the stops. I felt the same with Copland, though, when I watched Copland. Yeah, that was... That was a pretty... I love Copland. That was a really well-made film and all the actors. That was a... That was a different character for you, wasn't it? Yeah. Placid kind of... I wanted to be like the weakest guy in the room. You did, you did it. You did it in that film. And it doesn't sound like a big disability. When you're deaf in one ear, it's a horror. Your balance is off. You can't go to a restaurant because everything's funneling in here.

And it's just exasperating. You can't hear. It's terrible. So I studied with the Philadelphia School for the Deaf, and they filled this ear with silicone during like you're laying on a pillow it's completely silent you can't hear and then you roll over you oh that it was it's wild so that kind of infuri art so I developed this kind of inferior already complex and walking like a turtle yeah so I carried a small plastic a turtle in my pocket, right before every scene. You're a turtle. You're not a jaguar, you're not a lion. You're a turtle. Can I ask what it was like to work with Dolly Parton? Obviously we've heard so many fantastic stories but is there any that stand out?

You first of all would have loved her, she was a genius, she was articulate, she was a raconteur, storyteller. I never met a woman like her. For hours she would talk and self a facing, and I felt that this is the kind of woman that you would marry, she'd write you a song, go out and build your log cabin, milk the cow, everything, and then get clammed up. We were very, very close. I had so much fun. That movie was so, it's my favorite movie, because it wasn't popular, but as Dolly, you know that you literally through any kind of protective this or self like egotistical whatever you were a complete fool and that would I just wanted to be the buffoon that was supposed to be that character yeah yeah it was great she was amazing so sad what's fame cost you being famous cost you that people rarely see what's your What's your thing that would say you've missed through having a normal life?

You know, when guys blame fame, it's just too easy. What it is, is fame makes everything too easy, too accessible, and it just makes you spoiled, in a sense. You're surrounded by yes people and you really lose kind of your touch with the people sensitivity and the main thing is you become intolerant like this person is stupid you dismissive and really that's what power does to certain personalities actors are sensitive instruments but they're incomplete psyches which makes them good actors they love to bury themselves in a character When they come out of their characters, they get very unsettled and ill at ease.

Put them on a set, that's the reality. Coming home, not real, not in control. So it can really force you to become this mini dictator. And I've seen it all the time. And quite often it becomes insufferable. It really does. Because I did it you you're all shit. I had the entourage. I did it that the limo I did it. That's why when I tell you a story it's coming because I was the fool I didn't observe it. I was it. What was that moment where you realized that was happening?

Bell you yeah you wake with him Creed yeah Creed and Tony was such a natural man Wow I always thought he would be eventually in some TV show is like the Toughest cop in Liverpool, he's great. And he's an Everton supporter like yourself?

He actually wore Everton trunk, right? You wore the scarf. Yeah, I did, I did. What's the best piece of advice that you've ever received, and what's the best piece of advice you would give to a young person today? You have to be, I think, a specialist. Say, I'm an actor, you go, what does that mean? Oh, you can play everything you can. You're not going to do Shakespeare. You're not going to do classics. You may not be good at comedy. And then focus on that. If you want to play villains, you know. It's what your natural propensity. Some people just, I'll give you an example. I used to have this debate with Ray Liotta.

I loved, he was in Copland. how come I never get the good guy how come I'm never the good guy you're just such a great no one can do it better and he had a long career of being that incredible guy that's what I'm talking about and the other thing is really know your weaknesses more than your strengths just understand them You know, if it's your posture, if it's this, if it's a certain thing that you know is going to cost you a job. You know, because when you go in, the hardest thing in the world is to audition. I mean, these people watching you, they've seen 200 people, they're bored. They know in three seconds.

They go, oh. So you've got to be prepared to try and try and try and try. The odds of you getting it, I don't know if you guys realize this, but the success rate for actors is less than, like, it's 98% guaranteed you're going to fail. Maybe 99. Think about it. Of all the shows, put them all together, you probably have about 4,000 actors working, and that's a big number, out of, like, 600,000. Think about it. You have more of a chance of walking on the moon without headgear than doing that. It's an insane occupation to pursue unless you just, like, I felt as though that there was no reverse. And I talked to certain people, certain really successful people, like Bon Jovi or whatever.

There was never plan B. so if we bombed we would have gone into obscurity there was oh yeah I think I'll be an accountant no there's no skill set there's nothing and that's a big risk guys so I did and I've seen some guys you go you go to do these seminars You see people in their 60s in acting class. And I think Tom Hardy really put it succinctly when he goes, and they talk about the Stanislavski method and this method, Sonja Hager, all these different methods. It's really simple. It's convincing or not convincing. That's it. Period. You're either a convincing person as an actor. It just comes out.

No, you're not. And you're not going to make it. it's that simple but what keeps you going when you keep getting them nose is it like every time you're told no you're closer to the yes so what I just said is that you don't have a choice you just have to keep going like I used to paint these things of a you know you're going down this road and the road is it's all self-emoliation there is no going back the highway is burning as you leave behind there is no reverse in other words that's what this kind of profession is and it's still all the arts it's like i'm dancing this that painters like what does a painter go i'm just sorry for interrupting my daughter's in that situation where it's going for self-tape that's that's what they do now yeah yeah new york to the lee strasberg school right for um acting and obviously what you're saying there is for young actors must be really difficult you've got the experience you've been there and done it but as a parent sometimes it is tough when they're doing a self-tape they do them on day after day and you're not getting that feedback or knockback yeah I'm telling you it's and there's no quick fix you've just chosen the most difficult profession in the world and

it's going to get more difficult because AI I know my daughter is an I said, please, get into gaming, do something, please, because it really is. We've got to wrap up. We've got one more question. Who's the best actor or actress of all time? Oh, yeah. Well, to me, the best actor, not even close, is Peter O'Toole. Wow. End of story. There's no one in the world that could do Lion in Winter and Beckett and all that. It's just an end, drinking at the same time. Those guys, him, Richard Harris. Oliver Reed. Right, unbelievable. Today, I mean, you have some really, like Tom Hardy. When he does things, god damn.

We've had the best, I think, hour and 20 minutes that we've ever had in our lives. That fast? I think, yeah. He didn't eat one ding-dong. We were told we had to stop, so to be fair, we would have carried on going forever. Oh, wow, I've got to go buy a watch. Yes. Yes. I'm going to the vintage watch store in Burlington, all right? My friend. Do you want to leave that one with us? Yes. I'll look after it. Thank you so much. Thank you. That was amazing. Really? It was amazing. Photograph one. Give a photograph quickly, then. Thanks so much. Thank you, thank you. Amazing, honestly. Thank you so much.