Why Pakman distinguishes investigating Fauci from prosecuting him

Transcript

Transcribed by machine (Whisper) from the episode’s audio, so a word may be off here and there.

1. 36:40

   being pardoned in advance and then not giving any testimony whatsoever. I've been very clear. So I prefer people to give testimony. Absolutely. And, and, you know, So and this applies to both Republicans and Democrats. I'm not being on the fifth. I'm not big on the way that presidential pardon power has been used by Democrats and Republicans for a long time. So all of these elements. So we probably agree on that part.

2. 37:02

   I also think that the idea of looking at Fauci as a criminal target did not ever really seem warranted to me. Now, I'm willing to have my mind changed on that. But from all of the stuff that I've been reading and the books about him and the reports, The idea of Fauci as a target, after 50 years of basically working, I believe, in basically good faith for the national health of the country, on the circle we're talking about, I would go, well, that's a problem.

3. 37:30

   If you start there, I understand the pardon, even though I disagree with the ways the pardons have been used. Well, hold on. Anthony Fauci is quite credibly being accused of funding research that may have led to this pandemic breaking out. What research is that? the gain of function research where specifically though where and what year was that funded and he funded it personally he was uh i don't remember the details billy could you look this up with with venice ai what is the link between um the funding of that institute the wuhan institute of virology and gain of function research and Because I believe there were some emails that indicated, but I'm offering from memory, so we'll make sure to get our...

4. 38:09

   I'm glad to... Let's take a moment. And I should say, whatever one AI question says, I would want to do deeper research to feel fully informed about it. But let's see what it is. The vaccine's agency, NIAID, gave EcoHealth Alliance a multi-million dollar grant and about $600,000 of it went to the Woodman Institute of Virology, so the money has been direct. Critics say it did not force COVID-19. Right. Doesn't seem dispositive one way or the other. Well, no. It seems like a fraction of the funding. If you're a law and order guy, this is the kind of shit you'd want to investigate. Sure. And I'm fine investigating it. But you said you're okay with the pardon. The idea, I understand the pardon because you had a Republican party.

5. 38:59

   you said you understand i understand yeah i'm again i don't like the entire this this entire like i'll pardon all these people before i leave and i don't i don't like that but just speaking as people what we just heard is sort of like fauci worked at an agency the agency he ran the agent funded a bunch of different well yes but he ran the agent i don't think there's any evidence he's personally directing grants it sounds like what was said was there was a grant which funded a bunch of labs one lab got 600 000 and it's possible that that lab was doing gain of function research what no it was well he said indirectly you know it was doing gain of function research but not necessarily but they're denying that it caused and we don't know about funding being for that project listen i think we're in the weeds here the reason we're in the weeds here

6. 39:42

   david the reason we're in the weeds here is solely that i think based on you i'm just holding your argument up and stress testing it your argument is that you understand the pardon and you said because you didn't think Anthony Fauci was a warranted target for a criminal investigation. And I said there's a very serious accusation being made against him that when he was in charge of this agency, he contributed to the funding of gain-of-function research.

7. 40:09

   So based on what he just read, I don't know that your characterization is accurate, but let me take a step back a little bit. But that's why you need an investigation to establish it. And I would be fine with an investigation. Which is prevented by the pardon that you understand. I think the critical part here for me is there's a difference between an investigation into who funded what and the lock Fauci up stuff where we don't even know whether anything he did would even be criminal. Like what I'm saying is if let's imagine that what he said, which was indirect and critics say, which critics say is not the evidence says, it's critics say. Imagine that everything he said instead of being, well, this is what some say, it all happened. What is the criminality of it. And the problem I had was it was very when you have senators saying we got to

8. 40:57

   put Fauci in prison, that seems unhinged to me. Investigate what was funded, et cetera. But jumping to this is criminal and he should personally be in prison seems wacky to me. Sure. Fine. Saying that someone should be in prison before they've been convicted is obviously it's political rhetoric. But it's not even convicted. It's are we even talking about things that would be crimes well i think that if you were to find out that the leader of a u.s agency was funding gain-of-function research in another country which would that was deliberate right funding gain-of-function another country was deliberate because you can't do it in america you're not allowed to thereby potentially causing a pandemic that killed millions of people around the world i'm pretty sure that whoever was responsible for that if they in fact were

9. 41:45

   would be up the creek without a paddle when it comes to the criminal justice system it's it's and i'm not trying to be cagey it's a legal question i don't know if the nih funds 40 labs and one of them i i just don't know i don't know the legal but flip i'm fine investigating and i think that the the focus on locking thing. Bouchie up from Republicans makes me understand the preemptive pardon while I'm against the pardon industrial complex.

10. 42:10

    I think that's the way I would summarize an industrial complex. That's how I would summarize my view. I mean, and if new information comes to light, I'm glad to revisit. Look, I think one of the reasons, let's call it the pardon industrial complex, I really like it. It sounds like a punk band.