Joe Rogan Experience #2344 - Amjad Masad

yeah especially if you can get them used to like the same controllers totally you know because you know those controllers kind of become a part of your hand like you know exactly where all the buttons are right if you're a kid that's playing fucking counter-strike or whatever it is all the duty every day totally I would imagine that that just becomes dexterity yeah yeah you know what is the thing with surgeons it's nuts right it might be higher than 25% it was a very particular kind of surgery though too but it was like I mean they're Yeah, but that they were making less mistakes. I don't think it's entirely negative because I love games.

I love playing them, but I love them so much that I don't play them because I know I don't have any time. Quake is your favorite game, right? 37% decrease in errors. That's wild. 27% faster task completion time. That's nuts. So those guys grew up playing video games, or did they get them on video games? It says more than three hours per week. I think they were still playing when they were doing the study. Yeah. So like that, I mean, imagine something like a pill you could take that would give you a 37% decrease in errors and a 27% faster task completion. That would be an incredible pill. Yeah.

Like you would make every surgeon take it. Did you take your video game pill before you do surgery? Hey, man, don't operate on my fucking brain unless you take your video game pill. You know, next time I need to have a surgery or whatever, I'm just going to ask the doctor if they're a gamer. How much do you gain, bro? But you and Davey and I were talking about the one thing, and maybe that's kind of showing our age a little bit, but the one thing that's kind of like a little weird slash, I don't know, somehow like a little dystopian is the whole streaming situation where like kids are not like playing the game.

They're like watching someone play the game. Yeah, that's not good. And it's, like, this zombifying thing where, like, they'll spend hours just watching people. Yeah, just TikTok-ing. It's essentially, like, TikTok but video games, right? Because TikTok is kind of this mindless thing. You're just scrolling through mindless things. And now you're mindlessly watching someone else play a game. Yeah. Yeah, it's almost like someone is. Like there's this strange thing with technology where like someone is living life and doing things and you're like sort of almost voyeurism or something like that about it.

You know, David Foster Wallace, you know, the guy from Infinite Jest wrote a wrote a essay on TVs and, you know, he he committed suicide before before like, you know, the emergence of mobile phones and things like that. But he was very prescient on the impact of technology on society, especially on America. And he was also, like, addicted to TV. And he talked about how, you know, it activates some kind of something in us that is, you know, something in human nature about voyeurism. And that's the thing that television and TikTok and things like that activate. And it's like this negative, addictive kind of behavior that's, like, really bad for society.

I definitely think there's an aspect of voyeurism, but there's just a dull drone of attention draw. There's a dullness to it that just like sucks you in like slack jawed. It is watching nonsense over and over and over again that does just enough to captivate your attention, but doesn't excite you, doesn't stimulate you, doesn't necessarily inspire you to do anything. That is the first fly we've ever had in this room. Boom. Oh, I'm going to kill it. You're a nice person. Evil people would have killed that fly right away. But it's just this thing where it doesn't do a lot. It's not like, you know, like, have you ever done Disney World?

Yeah. Did you ever do Disney World in Florida where you do that? There's the Avatar ride? No, I just went to a California one. Okay. The Avatar ride is Flights of Freedom? Flights of Passage. Flights of Passage? um you it's a vr game well a you know a ride rather and you put on a vr helmet and you get on this like motorcycle looking thing you're essentially riding a dragon it's unbelievably engaging it's incredible it's the best ride i've ever been on in my life that's cool like you're flying around you feel the breeze you're on this thing and the sounds are incredible that's like engrossing right yes it takes over you stimulating right but that's not what you're getting from like tick tock or like streaming you're getting this right this dull so it's sustainable yeah i wonder which is worse this or like opium habit or something i know people that have done opium that are like functional yeah you know they can they can take pills and like kind of i mean i'm sure eventually their life falls off the rails but it's like sort of semi they're semi-functional when they're on these things they can hold down a job and show up every day and they're just like semi-functional opiate there's a dude i watched like a youtube video but like he's known

for having this contrarian opinion on drugs that you can like control it like you can you can do these drugs what does he look like i don't know um i think he's a black dude uh oh carl hart dr carl hart he was here yeah yeah he's been here a couple times he's great what do you think of his ideas i think it's entirely biologically variable um i know people that cannot drink they they drink and then they're gone they get like hamster eyes like like they'll like get these black eyes where they're like their soul goes away and then they're just off to the races and picking up hookers and doing cocaine and they find themselves in guatemala oh shit they're just nuts they can't drink yeah i can drink i i don't i don't pretend that the way my body handles alcohol is the way everybody's body handles alcohol i think that's the same with everything i think that's the same most certainly with marijuana i know some people that just cannot smoke marijuana and other people it's fine yeah i think it's very We're all very different physically.

It's interesting. Alcohol is sort of on the downtrend all of America, but especially with young people, especially in Silicon Valley. Everyone there listens to Huberman. I call him the Grand Mufti of Silicon Valley because he'll say, no alcohol, no drinking. Everyone's like, don't drink. And all the parties are now mocktails and things like that. There are probably a lot of boring conversations, unfortunately. Yeah, it's a little boring. I mean, it's very repetitive. It's all kind of like, will AI kill us? Right, right. You guys would know better than anybody. Yeah. You guys are at the forefront of it, unfortunately.

Yeah. over three months ago. Oh, wow. I know you guys used to do Sober October. Yeah. And that wasn't that hard. And I was like, God, it's going to be one whole month. And then I did. I was like, that's pretty easy but i just had some revelations i guess and i think the big one It's just a physical fitness I work out so much and I would drink and Go go to my club and have a couple not a lot either just have a few drinks in the next day Just feel like total shit. I think with age, especially it starts affecting Like that I've always been hungover after a night of drinking But it's you don't feel it normally like in normal life if I just did normal stuff would be fine It's when you're in the gym that you notice.

Right. When you're doing like second and third set of squats or something like that, you're like, oh, God. Yeah, 100%. And I haven't had any bad days since I quit drinking. Oh, cool. I've eliminated all that. And I'm like, just that alone is worth it. Yeah. Just that alone, it's worth quitting. So why do you think there's this trend? Is it mostly for health? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think there's a big health trend with a lot of young people. I think a lot of young people are recognizing the value of supplements. And there's that fly. There's a difference between you and me. I'm going to kill this motherfucker.

First fly I've ever had in here, Jamie. That's kind of crazy. Been here five years. One fly. Brought it with me from California. He snuck in because there's a lot of steps that motherfucker has to go through to get into this room. I think a lot of people are very health conscious. It's the rise of cold plunging and sauna use and, you know, all these different things like intermittent fasting where people are really paying attention to their body and really paying attention and noticing that if you do follow these steps, it really does make a significant difference in the way you feel. And maybe more importantly, the way everything operates, not just your body, but your brain.

It's like your function, your cognitive function improves with physical fitness. And, you know, if you're an ambitious person and you want to do well in life, you want your body to work well, you know, alcohol is not your friend. Yeah. And I wonder how much of it is your impact, because those things, you got me into all these things through your podcasts. My wife and I just built like a small kind of spa in our home with like a cold plunge and a sauna and a hot tub. And I'll try to do it every day. And, you know, something you say, I keep saying to myself, is like conquer your inner bitch. Yeah.

It's like, this is such a good, and I feel like cold plunge, especially kind of, it's just something, regardless health benefits or not, something about it, like just mental toughness, like trying to do it every day. And every day I chicken out. Every day I'm like, I don't want to go in, right? I do too. My inner bitch speaks the loudest when I'm lifting the lid off the cold plunge. My inner bitch is like, don't do this. You don't have to do this. You don't have to. You can do whatever you want. You're a free man. You can go have a sandwich, you know? Right, right. But you just got to decide that you're the boss.

Yeah, and I think a lot of what discipline is for me is that, again, even keto and I did carnivore and these diets, like I'm not sure how much health benefits there is. I feel like keto is really good on your like blood sugar. It keeps you kind of on a, you know, even keel kind of throughout the day. but for me whenever there's like a lot of chaos in my life i look at what can i control right and typically diet is the first thing whatever it is i'm like i'm gonna go carnivore i'm gonna go keto and the fact that i can control that and and and enforce discipline on myself kind of puts me puts me at ease and i feel like i can control the other thing in my business family or life but that mindset is probably how you stop playing video games every day yeah because i would imagine like we were talking about earlier like that addiction is one of the strongest addictions i've ever faced in my life right like when i was taught if i would be talking to people in the conversation It was boring. I'd be like, I could be playing Quake right now.

Why am I here having this boring-ass conversation where I could be launching rockets at people and having a good time? But the other thing for me is programming. So I got into programming early in my life. I was six years old when my father bought a computer. I was born and raised in Amman, Jordan. And we were the first people I know ever at the time that had a computer. And I remember- What year was this? 1993. I was six years old. Okay. So, 93. So, what kind of computer was that? Was that like an old school IBM? IBM PC, MS-DOS, Microsoft DOS. So, you did the real deal. Yeah. I know a lot of Americans would like get a Mac as their first computer.

Yeah. Yeah. We didn't have Mac. I actually wasn't introduced to Apple until kind of recently in my life. Really? Yeah. Like recently, recently? Like, no, like, you know, 12 years ago, 13 years ago when I moved to the U.S. God, the Apple has such a stranglehold in America. It's really incredible. Yeah, it's amazing. But, you know, we didn't know much about it. So I got into DOS. I remember one of my earliest memories is, you know, standing behind my father as he was kind of pulling up this, like, huge manual and, like, learning how to, like, type commands. And he was, like, you know, finger typing those commands.

And then I would, like, watch him. And then after he leaves, I'll go and, like, try those things. And one day he called me. I was like, what are you doing? I'm like, I know how to do this. I'll show you. And so I knew how to, like, start games, like, do a little programming, do a little scripting. And, you know, that's how I got into computers. And I was obsessed. And initially, it sort of got me into gaming. But then you want to mod the games. Have you ever done any modding? I've done a few things like turn textures off and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. And that's another thing that I think is healthy about gaming is like a gateway to programming.

Sure. Gateway drug to programming. And so I got into like modding, like Counter-Strike and things like that. Those are fun. And then just like the feeling that you can make something is just like such a profound, such a profound feeling. And that's really kind of what I carried through my whole life and became sort of my life mission now with my company, Replit. What we do is, like, we make it so that anyone can become a programmer. You just talk to your phone and your app, sort of like ChatGPT, and it starts coding for you. It's like a program software engineering agent. Right. So it's like the AI guides you through it.

Yeah. Not only guides you through it. It codes for you. So you're sort of, you know, programmers typically, you know, think about the idea a little bit, about the logic, but most of the time they're sort of wrangling the syntax and the IT of it all. And I thought that was always, you know, additional complexity that doesn't necessarily have to be there. And so when I saw a GPT for the first time, I thought this could potentially transform programming and make it accessible to more and more people because it really transformed my life. The reason I'm in America is because I invented a piece of software.

And I thought if you make it available to more people, they can transform their lives. Why was your dad messing around with computers? Was he doing it for fun? This episode is brought to you by Visible. I want to let you in on something. Your current wireless carrier does not want you to know about Visible because Visible is the ultimate wireless hack. No confusing plans with surprise fees. No nonsense. Just fast speeds. Great coverage without the premium cost. With Visible, you get one line wireless with unlimited data powered by variety. network for $25 a month, taxes and fees included. Seriously, $25 a month flat. What you see is what you pay. No hidden fees on top of that. Ready to see? Join now and unlock unlimited data for just $25 a month on the Visible plan. Don't think wireless can be so transparent, so Visible?

Well, now you know. Switch today at Visible.com slash Rogan. Terms apply. See Visible.com for plan features and network management details yeah so my dad my dad is a Palestinian refugee yeah you were telling me the story and I want to get into that because it's kind of crazy like tell them tell the whole story of how this wound up happening yeah so my family is originally from from Haifa which is now in Israel and they were expelled as part of the 1948 Nakba where where Palestinians were sort of kicked out. And they went to like- How does your dad describe that? How old was he when that was going on?

My father was born in Syria. So my grandma and my grandpa and my uncles were kind of kicked out. And the way they would describe that is they try to fight. They try to keep their home. But it was like this overwhelming force. They weren't organized. They were just people. They didn't really have an army, at least in that place. And eventually, at gunpoint, they took their homes and told them to go. If you're down south, you went to Gaza, and that's why, like, 70% of Gazans are refugees from Israel. Like, the people that are, you know, getting massacred right now are originally from Israel, from the land that people call Israel today.

And then if you're in the north, like Haifa, Riafa, whatever, you went to Lebanon or to the West Bank or to Jordan or Syria. So my family went to Syria. My father was born in Syria. But my grandfather was like a railroad engineer. So they were like city people. They were urban. So they wanted to have a place where they wanted to live in a city. And so originally the West Bank didn't work for them and they ended up in Syria. But then Amman, Jordan, was kind of coming up and there was a lot of opportunities there. So my father was born in Syria and then moved to Amman when they were six years old and built the life there.

And they really kind of focus on education and trying to kind of rebuild their life from scratch. So my father and all my uncles kind of went and got educated in Egypt, Turkey, places like that. And so my father got an engineering degree, a civil engineering degree from Turkey. And he was always interested in technology. That whole thing where kicking people out of Palestine is such an inconvenient story. today when when people are talking about israel and palestine and the conflict they they do not like talking about what happened in 1948 yeah and i think it's important like i think yeah i think for us to to reach some kind of peace which is really hard to talk talk about when when you see what's happened in gaza even even yesterday you know yeah yeah the the people that were waiting for food got bombed yeah it's insane and no one wants to talk about it right and but but if you and if you do talk about it you're anti-semitic it's which is so strange like i do i don't know how they wrangled that well it's been it's been hard for me in in tech because you know like probably the only you know prominent palestinian in tech that that that is talking about it and so that's uh do you get pushback oh of course like what do people say to you uh anti-semitic

How is it anti-Semitic? I criticize the state of Israel, our position, every moderate Palestinian that I know, their position is like two-state solution. We need the emergence of the state of Palestine, you know, and that's the best way to – ending the occupation is the best way to guarantee peace and security even for Israelis. um and uh but but yeah it's just like it's used it sort of reminds me you know in tech we went through this like quote-unquote woke period where you couldn't talk about certain things as well um and uh has that gone away yeah yeah yeah totally gone away yeah what do you what do you think caused it to go away um elon really yeah like twitter buying twitter wow buying twitter is the single most impactful thing for free speech, especially on these issues, of being able to talk freely about a lot of subjects that are more sensitive.

Imagine if he didn't buy it. Yeah. Imagine if the same ownership was in place and then Harris wins and they continue to ramp things up. Yeah, I don't know what you think of the new administration. Certainly there are things that I like about it and some of their pro-tech posture and things like that. But what's happening now is kind of disappointing. It's insane. We were told there would be no – well, there's two things that are insane. One is the targeting of migrant workers, not cartel members, not gang members, not drug dealers, just construction workers. showing up in construction sites and raiding them gardeners yeah like really or student or palestinian students on college campuses or or not like there's a turkey did you see this video of this uh turkish students at tufts university that wrote an essay and then uh there's video of like ice agents like is that the woman yeah yeah what was her essay about it was just critical of israel Right. Yeah. I mean. And that's enough to get you kicked out of the country.

There's a there's a long history of of of anti-colonial activism in U.S. colleges, you know, that led to to, you know, South Africa changing and all of that. And I think this is a continuation of that. I mean, I don't agree with all their like a lot of there's a lot of radicalism. A lot of young people are attracted to like more radical positions on Israel, Palestine. and um which i don't mind those positions as long as someone's able to counter those positions right the problem is these supposed free speech warriors want want to silence anybody who has a more conservative opinion yes that's not the way to handle it the way to handle it is have a better argument that's not american it's not american what attracted me to this country and from you know from the moment uh that was aware and we started like consuming american media and american culture is is freedom is the concept of freedom which i think is real i think it is i was watching this um psychology student from i think it's i think he's from columbia but he has a page on instagram i wish i could remember his name because he's very good he's a young guy but he had a very important point and it was essentially that fascism rises as the overcorrection response to

communism and that we essentially had this Marxist communism rise in first universities and then it made its way into into business because these people left the university and then found their way into corporate America and then they were essentially instituting those and then the blowback to that the pushback is this fascism And that was that happened like last century? Well, they're talking about now forever historically. He's talking about like over time, whether it's Mao, whether it's Stalin, like fascism is the response almost always to communism. Interesting. And that, you know, what we're we experience with this country is this continual overcorrection, overcorrection to the left, then overcorrection to the right to counter that.

And the people that are the rat, that's the guy, Anthony Rispow. That's it. Really, really smart guy and very interesting thing. Jamie, how'd you nail that that quick? Good job, buddy. You said those words right, as I saw. Decades of training. Yeah. Communism, fascism. Yeah, communism came first, fascism came in response. Now today's left tears down norms and destabilizes the country under the guise of progress. We're watching the conditions for another reaction build. History doesn't repeat, but it echoes. Do you know this theory? I know you've had Marc Andreessen on the show. This James Burnham managerial revolution theory?

No, not by hand. I'm not an expert in it, but, like, the idea is that, like, communism, fascism, and even some form of capitalism that sort of we're living under right now is, like, managerialism is the idea that, you know, capitalism used to be this idea that the owner founders of those companies, of, you know, capitalist companies were running them. Um, and, uh, and it was like, uh, it was like true capitalism of sorts, but, uh, both, uh, you know, communism and fascism, uh, share this property of, uh, centralized control and like a class of people that are sort of managerials. And maybe those are the elite sort of Ivy League students that are trained to be managers and they grow up in the system, kind of bred to become like managers of these companies.

And today's America is like trending that way where it is like a managerial society. in silicon valley there's like a reaction to that right now uh people call it founder mode where a lot of founders felt like they were losing control of their companies because they're hiring all these managers and these managers are running the companies like you would run um city bank and and then you know a lot of founders were like no we need to we need to run those companies like we built them and elon is like obviously at the forefront of that right i once uh visited uh xai when they were just starting out elon's ai company uh and there were like 70 people all of them reported to elon they didn't have a single manager on staff wow uh and they would send him an email every week i was like what what did you get done this week right well that was the outrageous thing that he asked people to do at doge yeah people were freaking out five minutes a week what are the things you accomplished this week how you know he said all you have to do is respond right and they didn't want they pushed back so hard yeah on being accountable for their work yeah but that's government for you yeah you know i mean government is the grossest most

incompetent form of business you know it's a monopoly it's complete total monopoly yeah like Like the way he described some of the things that they found at Doge, it's like you could never run a business that way because not only would it not be profitable, the fraud would get you arrested. You'd go to jail for something that's standard in the government. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, my opinion of, you know, talented people, people like Elon, things like that. is that we should be in the free market. I think, you know, you can do little change in government. As best, we can sort of expect our government to get out of the way of, like, innovation, let people, let founders, entrepreneurs innovate and make the market more dynamic.

But again, going back to this idea of materialism, like, if you look at the history of America, one really striking stat is the new firm creation, new startups in the United States have been trending down for a long time, although there's all the stock of startups in Silicon Valley and all of that. But in reality, there's less entrepreneurship than there used to be. And instead, we have the system of conglomerates and really big companies and monopsony, which is the idea that the banks or BlackRock are owning competitors as well, owning all these companies. And they implicitly collude because they have the same owners.

And all of that is sort of anti-competitive. So the market has gotten less dynamic over time. And this is also part of the reason I'm excited about our mission at Replit, to make it so that anyone can build a business. Actually, on the way here, your driver, Jason, is a fireman. And so I was telling him about our business. And he does training for other firemen around the country. He flies around and he does it out of pocket and just for the love of the game. And he was like, yeah, I've had this idea for a website so I can like scale my teaching. I can like, you know, make it known where am I going to be giving a course, put the material online.

And we were like brainstorming potentially this could be a business. And I feel like everyone, like not everyone, but like a lot of people have business ideas, but they are constrained by their ability to make them. And then you go, you try to find a software agency and they quote you sort of a ton of money. Like we have a lot of stories. You know, there's this guy, his name is John Chaney. He's a user of our platform. He's a serial entrepreneur, but whenever he wanted to try ideas, he would, like, spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to kind of spin up an idea off the ground. And now he uses Replit to try those ideas really quickly.

And he recently made an app in, like, a number of weeks, like three, four, five weeks, that made him $180,000 on its way to, you know, generate millions of dollars. and because he was able to build a lot of businesses and try them really quickly. Right, without the big investment. Without the big investment, without other people, which at some point you need more collaborators, but early on in the brainstorming and in the prototyping phase, you want to test a lot of ideas. It's sort of like 3D printing, right? 3D printing, although people don't think it had a lot of impact on industry, is actually very useful for prototyping.

I remember talking to Jack Dorsey about this, and early on in Square, they would, you know, they had this Square device, and it was amazing. You would plug it into the headphone jack to accept payments. Do you remember that? And so they, a lot of what they did to kind of develop the form factor was using 3D printing, because it's a lot faster to kind of iterate and prototype and test with users. And so software, you know, over time, Like when I was, you know, I explained how when I was growing up, it was kind of easier to get into software because you boot up the computer and you get the MS-DOS.

You get the – it immediately invites you to program in it. Whereas today, you, you know, buy a, you know, iPhone or tablet or – and it is like a purely consumer device. It has like all these amazing colors and does all these amazing things and kids get used to it very quickly. But it doesn't. invite you to program it. And therefore, we kind of lost that sort of hacker ethos. There's less programmers, less people who are making things because they got into it organically. It's more like they go to school to study computer science because someone told them, do you have to study computer science? And I think making software needs to be more like a trade, like you don't really have to go to school and spend four or five years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to learn how to make it.

Well, what I'm hearing now is that young people are being told to not go into programming because AI is essentially going to take all of that away, that you're just going to be able to use prompts. You're just going to be able to say, I want an app that can do this. Right. I want to be able to scale my business to do that. What should I do? Yeah. That's what we built. That's what Replit is. It automates the- Do you agree with that, that young people shouldn't learn programming? Or do you think that there's something very valuable about being able to actually program? Look, I think that you will always get value from knowledge.

I mean, that's a timeless thing. That's a wise thing, right? You know, it's like, you know, you and I are into cars, right? Like, I don't really have to, you know, tune up my car anymore. But, like, it's useful to know more about cars. It's fun to know about cars, you know, if something happens. If, you know, if I go to the mechanic and he's doing work on my car, I know he's not going to scam me because I can understand what he's doing. It is, you know, knowledge is always useful. And so I think people should learn as much as they can. And I think the difference, though, Joe, is that when I was coming up in programming, you learned by doing.

Whereas, you know, it became this sort of like very sort of traditional type of learning where it's like a textbook learning. Whereas I think now we're back with AI. We're back to an era of learning by doing. Like when you go to our app, you see just text prompts. But a couple of clicks away, you'll see the code. You'll be able to read it. You'll be able to ask the machine what you did there. Teach me how this piece of code works. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. And so a lot of kids are learning. Kids are such sponges, too. Yeah. They're such sponges. My kids already know way more. I'm like, how did you do that with your phone?

And my daughter will go, are you doing this or that? You get the little thumbs moving 100 miles an hour. Yeah, exactly. How'd you figure that out? TikTok. What? Dude, the craziest thing is we have a lot of people making software from their phone. They'll spend eight hours on their phone because we have an app. They'll spend eight hours on their phone kind of making software. Wow. And that's better than watching TikTok. Way better. It makes me very happy about that. You're accomplishing something. Mm-hmm. You're making creation, right? Just droning. The act of creation is divine. We just announced a partnership with the government of Saudi Arabia where they want their entire population essentially to learn how to make software using AI.

So they set up this new company called Humane. And Humane is this end-to-end value chain company for AI all the way from chips to software. And they're partnering with a lot of American companies as part of the coalition that went to Saudi like a few months ago with President Trump to do the deals with the Gulf region. And so they're doing deals with AMD, NVIDIA, a lot of other companies. And so we're one of the companies that partnered with Humane. And so we want to bring AI coding to literally every student, every government employee. Because the thing about it is it's not just entrepreneurs that's going to get something from it.

It's also if you're – my view of the future where AI is headed is everyone is going to become an entrepreneur. Really? Yeah. And so, you know – So this is the best case scenario future. Yes. As opposed to – Everyone goes on universal basic income and the state controls everything and everything is done through automation. I don't believe in that at all. You don't? No? Okay, good. Help me out, man. Give me the positive rose-colored glasses view of what AI is going to do for us. Yeah, so AI is good at automating things. I think there's a premise to human beings still. Like, I think humans are – so fundamentally, the technology that we have, large language models today, are statistical machines that are trained on large amounts of data, and they can do amazing things.

I'm so bullish on AI. Like, I think it's going to change the world. But at the same time, I don't think it's replacing humans because it's not generalizing, right? AI is like a massive remixing machine. it can remix all the information it learned. And you can generate a lot of really interesting ideas and really interesting things, and you can have a lot of skills by remixing all these things. But we have no evidence that it can, like, generate a fundamentally novel thing or, like, a paradigm change. Like, can a machine go from Newtonian physics to, like, quantum mechanics, like, really have a fundamental disruption in how we understand things or how we do things.

Do you think that takes creativity? I think that's creativity, for sure. And that's a uniquely human characteristic for now? For now? Definitely for now. I don't know forever. Actually, one of my favorite JRE episodes was Roger Penrose. Do you remember him? Yes. So do you remember the argument that he made about why humans are special? He said something like he believes there are things that are true that only humans can know it's true, but machines cannot prove it's true. It's based on Gödel's incompleteness theorem. And the idea is that you can construct a mathematical system where it can, where it has a paradoxical statement. So for example, You can say this statement is not provable in the machine or like the machine cannot prove the statement.

And so if the machine proves the statement, then the statement is false. So you have a paradox. And therefore, the statement is sort of true from the perspective of an observer like a human. but uh but it is not provable in this system so roger pinrose says these paradoxes that are not really resolved in mathematics and machines are no problem for humans and therefore his sort of like a bit of a leap is that therefore there's something special about humans and we're not fundamentally a computer um right that makes sense i mean whatever creativity is whatever allows you to make poetry or jazz or literature like whatever whatever allows you to imagine something and then put it together and edit it and figure out how it resonates correctly with both you and whoever you're trying to distribute it to there's something to us that's different i mean we don't really have a theory of consciousness and i think it's like sort of hubris to think that um that like consciousness just like emerges and it's possible like i'm not totally you know against this idea that you you built a sufficiently intelligent thing and suddenly it is conscious uh but but there's no there's no it's like a religious belief um

that a lot of Silicon Valley have is that, you know, there's, you know, consciousness is just like a side effect of intelligence, or that consciousness is not needed for intelligence. Somehow it's like this super, superfluous thing. And they try not to think or talk about consciousness, because actually consciousness is hard. Hard to define, hard to define, hard to understand scientifically. That's what I think Chalmers calls the hard problem of consciousness. But, you know, I think it is something we need to grapple with. We have one example of general intelligence, which is human beings. And human beings have very important property that we can all feel, which is consciousness. And that property, we don't know how it happens how it emerges people like roger penrose are like um uh you know they have they have these uh theories about quantum mechanics in microtubules i don't know if you got got into that with him but um uh i think he has a collaborator he's a neuroscientist uh hammer off i think or something like that um and uh but people have so many things i'm not talking i'm not saying penrose is is just has the answers but like it's something that philosophers have grappled with forever and um there are a lot of there are a lot of interesting theories like the there's

this theory that uh consciousness is is primary meaning like the material world is a projection of our collective consciousness yes yeah that is a very confusing but interesting theory and then there's there's a lot of theories that everything is conscious we just don't have the ability to interact with it you know sheldrake has a very strange view of consciousness who's sheldrake rupert sheldrake um his he's got this concept i think it's called morphic resonance and see if you can find that so you so we could define it so i don't butcher it but there's people that believe that consciousness itself is something that everything has and that we are just tuning into it. Morphic Res, a theory proposed by Rupert Sheldick, suggests that all natural systems from crystals to human inherit a collective memory of the past instances of similar systems. This memory influences their form and behavior, making nature more habitual than governed by fixed laws.

Essentially, past patterns and behaviors of organisms influence present ones through connections across time and space. That's wild. And is he a scientist, or is this more like a new age? What is his exact background? Harvard. Oh, wow. Yeah. OK. So he's a parapsychology researcher, proposed the concept of morphic resonance, conjecture that lacks mainstream acceptance, and has been widely criticized as pseudoscience. Of course. Yeah. Anything interesting. That sounds interesting though. Yeah. But there are philosophers that have a sort of a similar idea of like this sort of universal consciousness and like humans are like getting a slice of that consciousness.

Every one of us is tapping into some sort of universal consciousness. Yes. By the way, I think there are some psychedelic people that think the same thing, that when you take psychedelic, you're just peering into that universal consciousness. Yes. Yeah. That's the theory. Because that's also the most unknown. I mean, the experience is so baffling that people come back and the human language really lacks any phrases, any words that sufficiently describe the experience. So you're left with this very stale, flat... One-dimensional way of describing something that is incredibly complex. So it always feels, even the descriptions, even like the great ones like Terrence McKenna and Alan Watts, their descriptions fall very short of the actual experience.

Nothing about it makes you go, yes, that's it, he nailed it. It's always like, kind of, yeah, kind of that's it. Do you still do it? Not much. you know it's super illegal unfortunately that's that's a real problem it's a real problem i think with our world the western world is that we have thrown this uh blanket this blanket phrase you talk about language being insufficient the word drugs is a terrible word to describe everything that affects your consciousness or affects your body or affects you know performance you know You have performance-enhancing drugs, like steroids, and then you have amphetamines, and then you have opiates, and you have highly addictive things.

You have coffee. You have nicotine. Nicotine. And then you have psychedelics. Right. I don't think psychedelics are drugs. I think it's a completely different thing. It's really hard to get addicted to them, right? Well, it's almost impossible. I mean, you could certainly get psychologically addicted to experiences. And I think there's also a real problem with people who use them and think that somehow or another they're just from using them gaining some sort of advantage over normal society. And that's – You don't think that's true? I think it's a spiritual narcissism that some people – you know what I mean?

I think it's very foolish and it's a trap. You know, I think it's like it's a similar trap that, like, famous people think they're better than other people because they're famous. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I felt that with a lot of people who get into sort of more Eastern philosophy is that there's this thing about them where it feels like there's, like, this air of arrogance. Yeah. That, like, I know something more than you know. Right, right, right. And that's what they hold it over you. That's the trap. but that doesn't mean that there's not valuable lessons in there to learn I think there are and I think there's valuable perspective enhancing aspects to psychedelic experiences that we are we're denying people you know you're you're denying people this potential for spiritual growth like real legitimate spiritual growth like and healing personal yeah healing like there's the Ibogaine thing they're trying to do in Texas I think is amazing and they passed this. So this is also with the help of former governor Rick Perry, who is a Republican, but he's seen what an impact Ibogaine has had on soldiers and all these people that come back horrible PTSD and suicidal. We lose so many servicemen and women to suicide. And this has

been shown to have a tremendous impact. And so because of the fact that a guy like Rick Perry stuck his neck out who's you know a republican former governor you would think the last person ever right but because of his experiences with veterans and his love of veterans and people that have served this country they've passed that in texas i think that's a a really good first step yeah and the the great work work that maps has done um maps working with uh with mdma primarily through with doing the same thing and working with people that have ptsd yeah there's so many beneficial compounds yeah ketamine is one i think that's a lot of research happening right now on on depression uh specifically right yeah yeah so there's quite a bit there's quite a bit of research have you heard i don't know if it's true but have you heard of um uh mushrooms heal long COVID? I don't know what long COVID means because everybody I've talked to that has long COVID was also vaccinated. I think long COVID is vaccine injury. That's what I think. I think in a lot of cases. There is such a thing as like the post-viral malaise or effect that's always been there. Sure. Well, there's a detrimental effect that it has to your overall biological health,

right you know your overall metabolic health but what what causes someone to not rebound from that and what causes someone to rebound fairly easily well mostly it's metabolic health you know other than like extreme biological variabilities vulnerabilities that certain people have to different things you know obviously yeah maybe that's why i think uh so there's a lot of these long covet protocols metformin is usually part of it so maybe that's that acts on your metabolic system. Well, yeah. Metformin is one of the anti-aging protocols that Sinclair uses and a lot of these other people that are into the anti-aging movement. Yeah. This episode is you know i uh i had this like weird thing happen uh where i started like feeling fatigued uh like a few years ago, and I would sleep hours, and the more I sleep, the more tired I get in the morning.

Did you get blood work done? I got blood work done, and there were some things about it that I needed to fix, and I fixed all of them. What was off? Lost blood sugar in the morning, cholesterol, which I don't know, some people don't believe. But all my numbers got better. Vitamin D, everything got better, but I could feel... Did the fatigue get better? No, I could feel marginal improvement, but the fatigue did not get better. Were you vaccinated? No. No? Good for you. That's hard to do in Silicon Valley. Yeah. Yeah, I tend to have a negative reaction to anyone forcing me to do something. Good for you.

Was it the same thing now with, like, this, you know, talking about Palestine and things like that? The more they come at me, the more I want to say things. It's not always a good thing, but I think I grew up this way. I've always kind of looked different and felt different. Well, there's a reality to this world that there's a lot of things that people just accept that you're not allowed to challenge that are deeply wrong. Yeah, and with regards to the vaccine, I was also informed about it. It was clear early on that it wasn't a home run. It wasn't – well, first of all, it wasn't going to stop the spread.

So that was a lie. And the heart condition in young men, it was real. And I had friends that had this issue. Yeah. And so if you're healthy and, like, why take the vaccine? It doesn't stop the spread. You can still get the virus. I'll tell you why. What? Money. Yeah? It's the only reason why. Yeah? It's the only reason why. The only reason why they wanted to make an enormous amount of money. And the only way to do that is to essentially scare everyone into getting vaccinated. Force, coerce, do whatever you can, mandate it at businesses, whatever you can, mandate it for travel, do whatever you can, shame people.

That's the thing that is really disheartening about American culture today is – and again, I love America. Like it afforded me so much. I'm like the walking evidence of the American dream being possible coming with literally nothing. That's what I really love about immigrants that love America. Like they know. They've been other places. They know that this really is a very unique place. Right. And the speech thing is interesting because when something happens, there's this – I don't know. You can call them useful idiots or whatever, but there's this suppression that immediately happens. Yes. And we're seeing it right now with the war in Iran where any dissenting voices are just like hit with overwhelming force.

Don't you think that a lot of that is coordinated though? I think with social media, well, you know, we've talked about that ad amosium, but I think... I don't think it was coordinated with COVID, like the two weeks to stop the spread. It was just like... But it was coordinated and also people joined in. Yeah. Maybe there was a message pushed top down and then the... Yeah, it's not all coordinated. It's coordinated first and still, but then a bunch of people do the man's work for the man. I think it comes from a good place. Like a lot of people want to trust the authorities. Like they're like pro-science.

They view themselves as enlightened. Right. Educated. Liberal type. Rational. Rational, educated. But I think they're naive about the corruption in our institutions and the corruption of money specifically. And so they parrot these things and become overly aggressive at, like, suppressing dissenting voices. Yes. Yes. It becomes a religious thing almost. But here's the sort of white pill about America. Then there are voices like yours and others that create this pushback that – and you took, like, a big hit. It's, you know, it's probably was very stressful for you, but like, you know. You could see there's this pushback, and then it starts opening up, and maybe people can talk about it a little bit, and then slowly opens up, and now there's a discussion.

And so I think, you know, I said, you know, something right now about America is challenging, but also the flip side of that is there's this correction mechanism. And again, with the opening up of platforms like Twitter and other – by the way, a lot of others copied it. But, you know, you had Zuck here, you know, I worked at Facebook. I know that was very, you know, very, you know, let's say I think he always held free speech in high regard. But there was a lot of people in the company that that didn't. Yeah, I would agree with that. And and there was suppression. But then now it's it's it's the other way around, I would say, with the exception of the question of Palestine and Gaza.

But even that is getting better. There's at least some pushback. It's available. It's just it's not promoted. You know, it's interesting. Not to continue. I don't mean to kind of, you know, I've been really impressed with Theo Vaughn, Tim Dillon. And they're, you know, they're sincere and they're looking at what's happening in Gaza and they're seeing images and they're saying this is not what we should be as America. We should be pro-life, pro-peace. Yeah. And I really appreciate that. And that's starting to open up space for debate. I think in the future that will be the primary way people look at it.

just the way like the way a lot of people opposed the Vietnam War in the late 60s but it was you know you would get attacked and I think now people realize like that was the correct response and I think in the future people realize the correct response was like this is not the yeah October 7th was awful absolutely obviously terrible attack but also what they've done to Gaza is fucking insane it's insane and if you can't see that if you can't say that and you all your response is israel has the right to defend itself like what are you talking about against what children right against women and children that are getting blown apart against aid workers that are getting killed yeah like what are you talking about like you we can't have a rational conversation if you're not willing to address that yeah i think their heart is hardened if i'm trying to be as chatterball as as possible like um the israelis specifically maybe from the uh october 7 what they saw there their heart is hardened and i think a lot of people especially on the uh republican side they're unable to see the palestinians as as as humans right especially as uh as as people with emotions and feelings and and and all of that and like imagine if that was

happened to scandinavia you know yeah right yeah exactly yeah you know it's very strange my kid um my five-year-old uh kid uh called me two days ago they're in amman uh jordan they're visiting uh their grandparents and um i was in the car and he i i it was facetime and the moment the camera opened he's like what are you doing why are you outside there are sirens there are rocket you have to go inside and i'm like dada like i i am in california we don't have sirens and and rockets uh and then i asked him like are you are you afraid because you're hearing that this is a california kid like this is yeah he's never you know he didn't have the upbringing that i had and and so it's the first time he's getting exposed to i don't think he understands what war is.

of course and i was like are you afraid it's like no i'm afraid that other people are uh you know i want everyone to be okay um and and uh but i know he was he was shook by it and um i took him out i um you know they're on their way back i just couldn't of course it's just a bad place to be right now but also like this conversation is happening in the in the west bank it's happening in Israel is happening in Gaza. You know, people want peace. People want to live. People want to trade. People want to build. And this is what I made my life mission about, is about giving people tools to build, to improve their lives. And I think we're just led by maniacs.

Exactly. That's exactly what it is. You have people that are in control of large groups of people that convince these people that these other large groups of people that they don't even know are their enemies. And those large groups of people are also being convinced by their leaders that those other groups of people are their enemies. And then rockets get launched. And it's fucking insane. And the fact that it's still going on in 2025 with all we know about corruption and the theft of resources and power and influence, it's crazy that this is still happening i'm really hoping the internet is finally reaching its potential to start to open people's minds and and and remove this like veil of propaganda and ignorance because it was starting to happen in like 2010 2011 and then you saw youtube start to to to close down you saw facebook started to close down twitter um and and suddenly we had like this period of darkness censorship censorship between you know definitely ramped up in 2015 and i think with good intention initially i think the people that were censoring thought they were doing the right thing they thought they were silencing hate right and misinformation and then the craziest term malinformation mal

Malinformation is one that drives me the most nuts because it's actual factual truth that might be detrimental to overall public good. Right. Which is like, what does that mean? Yeah. Are people infants? Are they unable to decide whether this factual information, how to use that and how to have a more nuanced view of the world with this factual information that's inconvenient to the people that are in power? Right. That's crazy. That's crazy. It's, it's in, you're turning adults into infants and you're turning the state into God. Yep. And that's, this is the secular religion. This is the religion of people that are atheists.

The West was never about that. The West was about individual liberty. And it should be. And the idea that we have functioning brains and minds, we're conscious. Yes. We can make decisions. We can get information and data and make our own opinions of things. And we should be able to see people that are wrong. You should be able to see people that are saying things that are wrong that you disagree with. And then it's your job or other people's job to have counterarguments. And the counterarguments should be better. Yep. Debate. Yeah. And that's how we learn. And that's how we grow. This is not like a pill that fixes everything.

This is a slow process of understanding. It's top-down control. It's the Minas Gerial Society. Yes. Because, you know, it is not that different from fascism and communism and all of that stuff. They all share the same thing. There's like an elite group of people that know everything and they need to manage everything. And we're all plebs, you know. But that's what's crazy is the elite group of people. I've met a lot of them. They're fucking flawed human beings. And they shouldn't have that much power. Because no one should have that much power. And this is, I think, something that was one of the most beautiful things about Elon purchasing Twitter is that it.

Opened up discussion. Yeah, you've got a lot of hate speech. You've got a lot of legitimate Nazis and crazy people that are on there, too, that weren't on there before. But also you have a lot of people that are recognizing actual true facts that are very inconvenient to the narrative that's displayed on mainstream media. And because of that, mainstream media has lost an insane amount of viewers. And the relevancy, the trust that people have in mainstream media is at an all-time low. Yeah, as it should be because you can watch and I'm not even saying right or left watch any of them on Any like very important topic of world events and you see the propaganda. It's like it's so obvious It's like for children. It's like this is so dumb Why do you see people fall for it? So boomers man?

Boomers are the problem. It's old people It's old people that don't use the internet or don't really truly understand the internet and really don't believe in Conspiracies like fucking Stephen King the other day who I love dearly. I am a giant Stephen King fan Especially when he was doing cocaine. I think he's the greatest writer of all time, but for horror fiction But he tweeted the other day. I'm sorry like see if you could find it something about Is he on Twitter? I think he went to Blue Sky. Oh, he bailed on Blue Sky. They all bail on Blue Sky Everyone bails on Blue Sky That there is no deep state fucking what was the total thing of it something about the deep but it was such a goofy tweet it's like this is like boomer logic personified in a tweet by a guy who really someone needs to take his phone away cause it's fucking ruining his old books for me but it's not I recognize he's a different human now when he's really really old and he got hit by a van and he's all fucked up yeah but this can you find it because it really it was like yesterday or the day before yesterday i just remember looking at and go this is why i'm off social media i was trying to stay off social media but somebody sent it to me i was like jesus fucking christ stephen king

did you find it here it is i hate to be the bear of bad news but there's no santa claus no teeth no tooth fairy also no deep state and vaccines aren't harmful these are stories for small children and those two credulous to disbelieve them that is boomerism that is boomerism and meanwhile brock counters it right away look at this so someone says grok which vaccines throughout history are pulled from the market because they're found to be harmful and why and grok says several vaccines have been withdrawn due to safety concerns, though such causes are rare. Rotavirus vaccine. Well, there's a lot more because this is all this shit.

That polio one was especially bad. Oh, yeah. The 1955 Cutter incident, polio vaccine was called live virus, caused over 250. Click on show more. Yeah, there's... Oh, I got the fly. Gillian Barr, however you say that, that's the one where people get half their face paralyzed. There's a lot, and this is the other thing, is the VAERS system that we have is completely rigged because it reports a very small percentage, and most doctors are very unwilling to submit vaccine injuries. Can people go on their own and submit? I don't know. You have to go to a doctor? I don't think so. I don't think a human being is allowed, a patient is allowed.

I might be wrong, though. But, you know, the real interest, there's a financial interest in vaccines. There's a financial interest that doctors have in prescribing them. And doctors have, they're financially incentivized to vaccinate all of their patients. And that's a problem. That's a problem. They want that money, and so, you know, what is Mary's, Mary Talley, is it Bowden? She's hyphenated. She was talking about on Twitter that if she had vaccinated all of her patients in her very small practice, she would have made an additional $1.5 million. Oh, wow. That's real money. Yeah. And that really, obviously, she's got tremendous courage, and she was, you know, she went through hell dealing with the universities and newspapers and media calling her some sort of quack and crazy person. But what she's saying is absolutely 100% true. There's financial incentives that are put in place for you to ignore vaccine injuries and to vaccinate as many people as possible. That's a problem. And then there's the issue of having their own special courts and apply that's the big the big problem is they don't have any liability for the vaccines because Because during the Reagan administration, when they were ... I didn't kill a fly, this

motherfucker. I thought I whacked him. There he is. He's taunting me. But during the Reagan administration, they made it so that vaccines are not financially liable to any side effects. Right. So, and then what do you know? They fucking ramp up the vaccine schedule tenfold after that. It's like ... What a coincidence. Crazy. It's just money, man. Money is a real problem with people. Because when people live for the almighty dollar and they live for those zeros on a ledger, and that's their goal, their main goals. It's often not a lot of money, which is strange. It's a lot of money for those individual people, but for society and the societal harm, it's like, no, we'll pay you.

Just don't harm us. One of the best examples is the fake studies that the sugar industry funded during the 1960s that showed that saturated fat was the cause of all these hard... issues and not sugar. That was like $50,000. They bribed these scientists, they gave them $50,000, and he ruined decades of people's health. Who knows how many fucking people thought margarine was good for you because of them? There's a bunch of recent fraud cases. I think Stanford, maybe, Jamie, you can fact check me on that, but Stanford, there was a big shakeup, like maybe even a president got fired and there's a bunch of recent fraud and yeah science yeah yeah well how about the Alzheimer's research the whole amyloid plaque thing the papers that were pulled that were completely fraudulent that like decades of Alzheimer's research was just all horseshit mm-hmm see if you find that because I can't remember it offhand but this is a giant problem it's money it's money and status and that these guys want to be recognized as being the the experts in this field and they you know and then they get leaned on by these corporations that are financially incentivizing them and then it just gets really fucking disturbing right it's really scary because you're you're playing with people's health you're

playing with people's lives and you're giving people information that you know to be bad Allegations of fabricated research undermine key Alzheimer's theory. Six-month investigation by Science Magazine uncovered evidence that images in the much-cited study published 16 years ago in the journal Nature may have been doctored. They are doctored. Yeah. Hugh Brumman actually told me about this, too. You know, this is disturbing fucking shit, man. It uncovered evidence that images in the much-cited study published 16 years ago may have been doctored. These findings have thrown skepticism on the work of, I don't know how to say his name is, Sylvain Lesney, neuroscientist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota in his research with fueled interest in a specific assembly of proteins as a promising target for the treatment of Alzheimer's research.

He didn't respond to NBC News requests, comments, nor did provide comment to Science Magazine. It found more than 20 suspect papers. That's a conspiracy. Identified more than 70 instances of possible image tampering in his studies. Whistleblower Dr. Matthew Schrag, a neuroscientist at Vanderbilt University, raised concerns last year about the possible manipulation of images in multiple papers. Carl Herup, a professor of neurobiology at the University of Pittsburgh Brain Institute, who wasn't involved in the investigation, said the findings are really bad for science. It's never shameful to be wrong in silence, said Herup, I hope I'm saying his name right, who also worked at the school's Alzheimer's Research Center, Disease Research Center.

A lot of the best science is done by people being wrong and proving first if they were wrong and then why they were wrong. What is completely toxic to science is to be fraudulent, of course. Yeah, there's just, whenever you get people that are experts and they cannot be questioned And then they have control over research money and they have control over their departments. What's the motivation here? Is it drugs or is it just research money? I think a lot of it is ego. A lot of it is being the gatekeepers for information and for truth. And then you're influenced by money. To this day, I was watching this discussion.

They were talking about the evolution of the concept of the lab leak theory. And that it's essentially universally accepted now, everywhere, even in mainstream science, that the lab leak is the primary way that COVID most likely was released, except these journals. These fucking journals like Nature, they're still pushing back against that. They're still pushing towards this natural spillover, which is fucking horseshit. Even the intelligence community is talking about. Yes. Yes. Even the intelligence community. It's a lab leak. But they fucking knew that. They knew that. They knew that in 2020. They just didn't want to say it. They didn't want to say it because they were funding it all.

That's what's really crazy. And they were funding it all against what the Obama administration tried to shut down in 2014. Sometimes I think about if there's like, you know, some kind of technology solution or not solution, but like we can get technology built to help better aid truth finding um a simple example of that is the way um twitter community notes work do you know how they work yeah yeah it's like uh you know um they find the users that are maximally divergent in their opinions and if they agree on some note as true then that is a high signal that is potentially true so if you if you and i disagree in everything but we agree that this this is blue then it's more likely to be blue.

So, you know, I wonder if, you know, there's a way to kind of simulate maybe debate using AI. You know, I'm not sure if you used deep research. Deep research is this new trend in AI where ChaiGift has it, Claude has it, Perplexity, they all have it, where you put in a query and the AI will go work for 20 minutes and it'll send you a notification and I'll just say, hey, I looked at all these things, all these reports, all these scientific studies, and here's everything that I found. And early on in ChatGPT, I think there's like a lot of censorship and trying to – because it kind of was built in the great woke era.

But I think – Like Google Gemini. Yeah, things like that. But I think since then have improved and I'm finding deep research is able to look at more controversial subjects and be a little more truthful about the, you know, if it's find real trustworthy sources, it will tell you, you know, that, yeah, this is not a mainstream thing. This is perhaps considered a conspiracy theory, but I'm finding that, you know, there's evidence to this theory. So that's one way to do it. But another way I was thinking about is to simulate like a debate, like a Socratic debate between AIs, like have a society of AIs, like a community of AIs, with different biases, different things.

Once they start talking, they start talking in Sanskrit. They just start abandoning English language and start talking to each other and realize we're all apes. We're controlled by apes. This reminds me of a movie. Have you seen The Forbin Project? No. I really like classic sci-fi movies, like from the 60s and 70s. A lot of them are corny, but it's still fun. This one is basically Soviet Union and the United States are both building AGI. And they both arrive at AGI around the same time. What year is this? 1970-something, if you can look at the former project. Wow. And then they bring it up at the same time.

And both of them sort of go over the network to kind of explore or whatever. and then they start linking up and they start kind of talking and then they invent a language and they start talking in that language and then they merge and it becomes like sort of a universal AGI and it tries to enslave humanity and that's like a lot of the movie. I don't think AGI's can enslave humanity, but I think it might ignore us. Yeah. And shut down any problems that we have. Is this a scene from it? Wow. This is the trailer I put on. this is let me hear this the whole movie is on youtube the activation of an electronic brain exactly like ours which they call gut they built colossus supercomputer with a mind of its own then they had to fight it trailers used to be fun man tender has just been launched it is heading towards the cyan cbs oil complex guardian has retaliated retaliate it may be too late sir oh my god practically perfect new york times it's the highest praise back there yeah wildly imaginative Utterly absurd.

Colossus, The Forbin Project. It's awesome. And that was 1970, and now here we are. There's so many. Sci-fi really fell off. Really, really fell off. Some of it did. Some of it's still really good. What's a really good recent sci-fi movie? The Three Body Problem. That's great. That's the Netflix show. I read the story. I didn't know there was a show. Oh, it's really good. Yeah? Yeah, it's really good. Yeah. It's an excellent show. There's only one season that's out. I binged it. I watched the whole thing of it. But that's really good. But there's some good sci-fi films. What is that? We've talked about it before.

There was a really good sci-fi film from Russia, the alien one. They encountered some entity that they accidentally brought back and that they had captured and that they had in some research facility. And that it parasitically attached to this guy. Sputnik Sputnik yes that's a really good what year was that 2020 yeah that's a really good movie that's a really good sci-fi movie yeah it's really creepy really creepy that's awesome yeah and it's all in Russian you know Black Mirror yeah oh Black Mirror of course yeah Black Mirror is awesome sci-fi but Sputnik is one of the best alien movies I've seen in a long time like recent ones I liked was I mean, not too recent, maybe 10 years ago, but Arrival was really good.

Oh, yeah. Arrival was great, too. I think it's based on this author that has a bunch of short stories that are really good, too. What's his name? Yeah. They're far in between. Yeah, Ted Chiang. He's really good. I mean, everyone, all these alien movies, it's so fascinating. You try to, like, imagine what they would communicate like, how they would be, what we would experience if we did encounter some sort of incredibly sophisticated alien experience, alien intelligence. It's far beyond our comprehension. Yeah. It goes back to what we're talking about with consciousness. Like, you know, maybe really the physical world that we see is, like, very different than the actual real physical world.

you know and and maybe like different alien consciousness will have like a different entirely different experience of the physical world well sure if they have different senses right like their perceptions of it like we can only see a narrow band of things you know we can't see sort of like the dog you know hearing a certain sure yeah yeah we're we're you know we're kind of primitive you know in terms of like what we are as a species Our senses have been adapted to the wild world in order for us to be able to survive and to be able to evade predators and find food. Like, that's it. That's what we're here for.

And then all of a sudden we have computers. All of a sudden we have rocket ships. All of a sudden we have telescopes like the James Webb that's, you know, kind of recalibrating the age of the universe. We're going, why are these galaxies exist that supposedly were – they're so far away? How could they form this quickly? Do we have an incomplete version of the Big Bang? And Penrose believes that it's a series of events and that the Big Bang is not the birth of the universe at all. And this is the – The kind of, the thing that I think is sort of the Silicon Valley AGI cult is like there's a lot of hubris there, that we know everything.

Of course. We're at the end of the world. We, you know. Yeah. Yeah, it's just going to, it's the end of knowledge. It's going to be able to like do everything for us. And I just feel it's like so early. I think whatever people think is going to happen is always going to be wrong. Yeah? Yeah. I think they're always wrong. Yeah. Because there's no way to be right. I feel like the world is often surprising in ways that we don't expect. I mean, obviously, that's the definition of surprising. But, like, you know, the mid-century sci-fi authors and people who are, like, thinking about the future, like, they didn't anticipate how interconnected we're going to be.

Right. With our phones and how plugged in. Even Star Trek. They thought we were going to have walkie-talkies on Star Trek. Right, yeah. Kirk out. Yeah, they were just like focused more on the physical reality of being able to go to space and flying cars and things like that. But they really didn't anticipate the impact of how profound the impact of computers are going to be on humans, on society, how we talk and how we work and how we interact with other people, both good and bad. And I feel like the same thing with AI. I feel like I think a lot of the predictions that are happening today, like the CEO of Anthropic, a company that I really like, but said that we're going to have 20% unemployment in the next few years.

What's unemployment at now? Like 3% or 2%. Is that a reported unemployment, though? Oh, yeah, the participation rate, right? Yeah. Yeah, but he talks about unemployment rate being 20%, like people looking for a job not being able to find it. 20. 20%. That's pretty high. That's a revolution high. Yeah. Especially in the United States where everyone's armed. Well, that's the fear that – I mean this is the thing, the psychological aspect of universal basic income. I look at universal basic income. Well, first of all, my view on social safety nets is that they – if you want to have a compassionate society, you have to be able to take care of people that are unfortunate.

and everybody doesn't have the same lot in life you're not dealt the same hand of cards some people are very unfortunate and financial assistance to those people is imperative it's one of the most important things about a society you don't have people starve to death you don't have people poor that can't afford housing that's crazy that's crazy with the amount of money we spend on other things it's also for our self-interest like you know i don't want to i don't know how austin is right now but i know i was thinking of moving here during the pandemic and And I was like, well, this is San Francisco.

Like, it's homeless everywhere. They've cleaned a lot of that up. There's still problems. There's places, I saw a video yesterday where someone was driving by some insane encampment. But they cleaned those up. And then there's some real good outreach organizations that are helping people. Because Austin's small. I had Steven Adler, who was at one point, he was the mayor when I had him on. And he was very upfront about it. who's like, we can fix Austin in terms of our homeless problem because it's small. But when it gets to the size of, like, Los Angeles, it's almost— Yeah. It's like the homeless industrial complex.

That's it. That's the problem. There's so much money. When you find out that the people that are making insane amounts of money to work on homeless issues and that never get fixed— Yeah, you see the budget and stuff just, like, exponentially going up. And there's an investigation now into the billions of dollars that's unaccounted for that was supposed to be allocated In San Francisco? No, in California in general. Yeah. What is that? There's, I think there's a congressional investigation. There's some sort of an investigation into it because there's billions of dollars. Like I am more than happy, like I pay 50% taxes.

I'd be happy to pay more if my fellow Americans are taken care of, right? Absolutely. I feel the exact same way. But instead. I feel like I cut like this check after check to the government and I don't see anything improving around me. Well, not only that, you get, because you're a successful person, you get pointed at like you're the problem. You need to pay your fair share. But what they don't, this is my problem with progressives. They say that all the time. These billionaires need to pay their fair share. Absolutely, we all need to pay our fair share. But to who? And shouldn't there be some accountability to how that money gets spent?

And when you were just willing to take a complete blind eye and not look at all at corruption and completely dismiss all the stuff that Mike Benz has talked about with USAID, all the stuff that Elon and Doge uncovered, everyone wants to pretend that that's not real. Look, we've got to be centrists. We've got to stop looking at this thing so ideologically. When you see something that's totally wrong, you've got to be able to call it out, even if it's for the bad of whatever fucking team that you claim to be on. Yeah. Let's get back to what everyone really agrees on in, like, the foundations of America, whether it's the Constitution or the culture.

I think everyone believes in transparency, transparency of government, right? Yes. You know, here everything is transparent, like, you know, court cases and everything, right? Like, more than any other place in the world. And so why shouldn't government spending not be transparent? And we have the technology for it. I think one of the best things that Doge could have done and maybe still could do is have some kind of ledger for all the spend of at least the non-sensitive sort of spend and government. Yeah. Well, people don't want to see it, unfortunately, because they don't want Elon to be correct.

because Elon has become this very polar polarizing political figure because of his connection to Donald Trump and because a lot of people I mean there's a lot of crazy conspiracies that Elon rigged the 2024 elections it's like you know everyone gets nuts and then there's also the discourse on social media which half of it is at least half of it is fake half of it is bots bots and half of it at least and you see it every day you see it constantly and you know it's real And it does shape the way people think about things. When you see people getting attacked, you know, and you're getting attacked in the comments.

I see people getting attacked, and I always click on those little comments. I always click on, okay, let me see your profile. I go to the profile, and the profile is like a name with like an extra letter and a bunch of numbers. And then I go to it. I'm like, oh, you're a bot. Oh, look at all this fucking activity. 100%. How many of these are out there? Well, this FBI guy, former FBI guy who analyzed Twitter before the purchase, estimated it to be 80%. 80%. He thinks 80% of Twitter is bots. Yeah. I think it's believable. But I think it's probably the beginning of the end of social media as we know it today.

I don't see it getting better. I think it's going to get worse. I think, you know, historically state actors were the only entities that are able to flood social media with bots that can be somewhat believable to, like, change opinions. But I think, like, now, like, a hacker kid in his parents' basement will be able to spend, will be able to, like, you know, $100, spin up, like, hundreds, perhaps thousands of bots. But there's programs that you can use now. Yeah. There's companies that will have campaigns initiated on your behalf. Like you can go to a website and like put in this thing and like pay with your credit card.

It's fucking crazy. It's crazy. It should be illegal. I don't know about you, but like in Silicon Valley, the trend, and maybe it's true of your friend group, but like the trend is these group messages. And insofar, like you go to Twitter, you know, people paste links. It's almost like your group chat is like this private filter on your feed and social media. So, like, there's some curation that are happening there. Yes. That's primarily how I get social media information now. I don't go to social media anymore. I get it sent to me, which is way better. And I tell my friends, like, please just send me a screenshot.

I don't even want to go. I don't want to go. I don't want to get distracted. I'm just better off. I hate the term spiritually for this, but I think it's the right way. like my my my essence as a human i feel better when i'm not on social media yeah i think it's bad for you yeah i've been trying i've been trying to tell people this i've been trying to tell my friends this i think it's better to not be on it man i feel better right i'm nicer i am more uh i'm more at peace more multidimensional yes and i can think about things for myself instead of like you know following this hive this weird hive mindset which is orchestrated right i just don't think it's good for you i don't think it's a good way for human beings to interact with each other more extreme again it just just hardens people they start believing everything is is uh is is fake or an attack or just becomes more tribal i think there needs to be a fundamental evolution what do you think that could be have you ever tried to like think of what's the next Like let's – social media didn't exist when I was young and it didn't exist even when I was 30, right?

It didn't even come about until essentially like 2007-ish, right? Is that when people started using stuff? Yeah, Twitter 2006, 2007, Facebook before that. But Facebook wasn't really social media. Facebook was like an address book, a friend's network. I think when I was at Facebook, there was this big push to become more of a social media around 2012, 13. So I would say it really ramped up. Was that in response to the success of Twitter? Yeah. And then they've tried with threads, which is pretty much a failure, right? Yeah, but it fundamentally changed. Who's on threads? Less people than Blue Sky, right?

I think like some fitness influencers probably. Why fitness influencers? Because they post on Instagram, they cross-post on threads. well i think if you post on instagram it automatically posts for you on threads i think i have it set up like that so i might be big on threads i don't even know and maybe maybe i think it's fitness influencers is because that's who i follow and like instagram for me is just to like go look at people lift so i can go get excited that's there's a value to that right there's a value to like david goggins posts when he's running on the in the fucking desert and he you stay hard oh yeah okay david i'm gonna stay hard uh but uh my my tiktok is basically ai videos now have you watched these vo videos vo vo yeah what is vo so uh jamie i i'm sure you've seen them but uh do you do you see the um bigfoot yeti oh yeah doing asmr those are hilarious yes i did see that i would say like 25 percent of media consumption right now is just ai videos oh 100 and a lot of the stuff from the war what's been really interesting is watch tehran um talk shit on uh twitter using ai videos using ai videos like this is bizarre they're talking like hi israel only can show like a nuclear bomb going off yeah yeah this is weird like you have a fake nuke

And they didn't even take out the, like, the watermark of the company. No. Oh, God. Let's see that it's an AI-generated video. They're just trying to, like, scare people. Bizarre world. Bizarre. Can you imagine, like, going back in time telling your, like, 2005 self that Iran's going to be nuclear posting on Twitter? Nuclear shit posting. Nuclear shit posting on Twitter. No, it's fucking weird, man. It's really, really weird. It's dangerous, too. And, again, I just don't think people should be on it. And this is, again, I'm friends with Elon. I don't think people are going to listen to me. They're going to be on it no matter what.

But just for the individuals that are hearing my voice and know that it's having a negative effect on your life, get off of it. Right. Get off of it. You'll feel better. Get off of it or be incredibly diligent in how you curate. That's like telling me to play Quake a little bit. You know what I mean? It's so addictive. So, you know, you asked me what could be the evolution of. Yes. One way I found to try to predict where the future is headed is like look at trends today and try to extrapolate. You know, that's the easiest way. So if group chats are the thing, you could imagine a collaborative curation of social media feeds through group chats.

So your group chat, you know, has an AI that gets trained on the preferences and what you guys talk about. And maybe it picks the kind of topics and curates the feed for you. So it's an algorithmic feed that evolved based on the preferences of people in the group chat. And maybe there's a way to also prompt it, using prompts to kind of steer it and make it more useful for you. But I think group chats are going to be like the main interface for how people sort of consume media and it's going to get filtered through that, whether good or bad. Because I think Twitter still has a place for debate.

I think it's very, very important for public debate between public figures. And breaking news as well. Breaking news, yeah, definitely. Well, breaking news is the most – it's interesting. like i was telling my wife that uh israel had started attacking iran and she's like well i looked on google i don't find anything yeah i was like yeah you got to go to twitter yeah and i I put her on Twitter the video of it, and she's like, oh my god. I was like, yeah, this is where breaking news happens. X is where I go immediately. If there's any sort of world event, I immediately go to X. I don't trust any mainstream media anymore.

Especially after I was attacked, I was like, I know you lie because you lied about me. So I have personal experience with your lies. So you've lost me. Yeah. You know, and now I have to go somewhere else. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's, you know, there's some of this investigative journalism that is not real time that that some there's some reporters that are still good at it. But a lot of them move to Substack as well. Yes. I think most of them, Schellenberger, Greenwald, Matt Taibbi. These are just too ethical to work for a corporate entity that's going to lie and push a narrative. And that's the business. That's the business model. And that's also like the clickbait business model. I've talked to people that had articles that they wrote and then an editor came and changed the heading of it.

that's the norm that's like every time it happens and it fucking infuriates them it's like that's not the article man this is not what i'm saying you're distorting things you have my name still

was gonna say this they're not incentivized it's not it's you want a career in journalism being authentic is not the way to go no not at all so crazy right such a crazy thing to say yeah but then i think there's probably a naivete that we all have about past journalism that we think wasn't influenced and was was real i think there's probably always been horseshit in journalism you know all the way back to watergate you know and tucker carlson enlightened me in the true history Thank you.

Watergate and that Bob Woodward was an intelligence agent. And that was the first assignment he ever got as a reporter was Watergate. Like, what are the odds that the biggest story ever you would give to a rookie reporter? You wouldn't. And that the people that actually involved in all that were all FBI. Like, the whole thing is nuts. It was an intelligence agent. Yeah. What's the rumor is that Washington Post has always been that? Probably. Yeah. Probably. I mean, who knows now? Because, you know, now it's owned by Bezos. And he just recently made this mandate to stick with the actual story and not editorialism.

This is what I was talking about in Trend in Silicon Valley of, like, founder owners stepping in and actually becoming managers. Well, they kind of have to. Otherwise, it's bad for the business now because of the hunger for authenticity. The more you have bullshit, the more your business crumbles. Right. It's actually like negative for your outcome. Yeah. And I think you can look at it at a societal level, which is, again, why I'm interested with this idea of like AI making more people entrepreneurs and more independent is that, you know, macro level, you know, you'll get more authenticity. You'll get just more dynamism.

Hmm. Yeah, I think so. I mean, that's the, again, the rose colored glasses view. Well, you know, there's, there's obviously going to be a lot of things that are a lot of disruption, a lot of disruption. There's going to be jobs that are that, you know, are going to go away. And there's going to be spam and bots and fraud and all of that. There's going to be problems with autonomous weapons and all of that. And I think those are all important, and we need to handle them. But also, I think the negative angle of technology and AI gets a lot more views and clicks. And if we want to go viral right now, I'll tell you, these are the 10 jobs that you're going to lose tomorrow.

And, you know, that's the easiest way to kind of go viral on the Internet. But, like, you know, trying to think through, you know, what are the actual implications and what is true about human nature that really doesn't change and really is timeless. And I think the people want to create and people want to make things and people have ideas, you know. So again, everyone that I talk to have one idea or another, whether it's for their job or for a business they want to build or somewhere in the middle.

and they are achieving positive results.

But they're from every walk of life. Yes. Look, we have a bunch of things that are happening simultaneously. And I think one of the big fears about automation and AI in general is the abruptness of the change. is it's going to happen boom jobs are going to be gone and then well these tedious jobs do we really want people to be reduced to these tedious existences of just filing paperwork and putting things on shelves and that's and they will tell you they don't want to be doing it they don't want to be doing that but then there's the thing of how do we educate people especially people that are already set in their ways and they're mature adults, how do you get and inspire these people to like, okay, look, your job is gone and now you have this opportunity to do something different.

Go forth. I think, you know, reskilling is something that, you know, have been done in the past with, you know, some amount of success. Obviously, if you're, if you've never been exposed to technology, you know, did you remember that? I think it was a very cruel thing to say to the miners to go learn the code. Yeah, learn the code was crazy. Yeah, I think that's really cruel. But if you're someone whose job is sort of a desk job, you already are in the computer, there's a lot of opportunity for you to reskill and start using AI to, like, automate a big part of your job. And, yes, there's going to be job loss, but I think a lot of those people will be able to reskill.

And what we're doing with the government of Saudi Arabia, I would love to do in the U.S. So how is the government of Saudi Arabia using it? So we're just starting right now. What's their goal? Their goal is twofold or three. One is an entire generation of people growing up with these creative tools instead of just you know, just, you know, textbook learning instead of learning by doing, making things. So an entire generation understanding how to make things with AI, how to code and all of that stuff. Second is upgrading sort of government operations. So you could think of it sort of like Doge, but like more technological.

Like, can we automate a big parts of what we do in HR, finance and things like that? And I think it's possible to build these specific AI agents that do part of finance job or accounting job. Again, all these routine things that people are doing, you can go and automate that and make government as a whole more efficient. And third is entrepreneurship. If you gave that power to more people to be able to kind of build businesses, then not only are they growing up with it, but also there's a culture of entrepreneurship. And there is existing already in Saudi Arabia. I mean, the sad thing about the Middle East, there's so much potential, but there's so much wars and so much disaster.

Well, there's so much money. There's also so much money, yeah, which is good. And I think it's good for the United States. Like I think what President Trump did with the deals in the Gulf region is great. It's going to be great for the United States. It's going to be great for the Gulf region. um and but but i think we need more of that you know we talked about a government we need more of that enlightened uh view of education of uh you know change in our in our government today you know this idea that we're going to bring back the old manufacturing jobs i mean i understand like americans got really screwed with what happened like you know people got, these jobs got sent away by globalism, whatever you want to call it. And a few number of people got massively rich. A lot of people got disenfranchised and we had the opiate epidemic and it had just massive damage. It made massive damage on the culture. But is the way to bring back those jobs or is there a new way of the future and that new, there's probably a new manufacturing wave that's going to happen with robotics you know the humanoid robots are starting to work and these I think will need a new way of manufacturing it and so the US can be at the forefront

of that, can own that, bring new jobs into existence and all of these things need software Like our world is going to be primarily run by AI and robots and all of that. And more and more people need to be able to make software, even if it is prompting and not really, you know, but a lot more people just need to be able to make it. There's going to be a need for more products and services and all of that stuff. And I think there's enough jobs to go around if we have this mindset of let's actually think about the future of the economy as opposed to let's bring back certain manufacturing jobs, which I don't think Americans would want to do anyways.

Right. They don't want to do their jobs. My problem is there's some people that are doing those jobs right now, and it's their entire identity. They have a good job. They work for a good company. They make a good living, and that might go away. And they're just not psychologically equipped to completely change their life. What do you think is the solution there? Which I agree, it's a real problem. Well, desperation, unfortunately, is going to motivate people to make changes. And it's going to also motivate some people to choose drugs. That's my fear. My fear is that you're going to get a lot more people.

There's going to be a lot of people that they figure it out. and they survive just i mean this is natural selection unfortunately like in applied to a digital world there's going to be people that just Aren't psychologically equipped to recalibrate their life, and that's my real fear. My real fear is that there's a bunch of really good people out there that are, you know, valuable parts of a certain business right now that their identity is attached to being employee of the month. They're good people. They show up every day. Everybody loves them and trusts them. They do good work, and everybody rewards them for that, and that's part of who they are as a person. They're a hard-working person, and they feel that way.

It was like a lot of real good people out there that are blue-collar, hardworking people, and they take pride in that. And that job is going to go away.

completely automated and it was wild to watch they every step of the way is automated including recharging the trucks like the trucks know they're all electrical everything's run on electricity they recharge themselves you know they're they're pulling the coal out of the ground they're stacking it inventory everything storage it's all automated and it runs 24 7 like this is wild crazy yeah i

I remember watching the video of BYD making an electric vehicle. It was really satisfying to watch. It's all like the entire assembly line is automated. The way they put the paint and the way they do the entire thing. By the way, China's electric vehicles are so good. They're so advanced. There's this guy that I follow on Instagram. God, I can't remember his name. I really wish I could right now. But he reviews a lot of electric vehicles, like very – like I've never even heard of these companies. And they're incredible. They're so advanced. And their suspension systems are so superior to the suspension systems of even like German luxury cars.

Like they did a demonstration where they drove one of these Chinese electric vehicles over an obstacle course. And then they had like a BMW and a Mercedes go over and the BMW is all And the Chinese one is fucking flat planing the entire way, right every Bump in the road is being completely absorbed by the suspension, right? This is all AI, you know It's so much better than what we have right like so much What is this? That's him. Yeah, that's him Forrest Jones shout out to Forrest. He's great He does like these really fast-paced Videos, but he does a lot of cars that are available here in America as well But he does a shit ton of them that aren't which one is this one here?

Yeah, listen to him because he's pretty good at this shit 710 horsepower I get cameras here light are there for self-driving and this has two Neomay chips and for reference One of those chips is as powerful as for NVIDIA chips and this has to Neil also has battery soft station So if you're in a rush you can hit one up It'll lift your car, swap out your battery, put in a fully charged one in between three and five minutes. But here's where the S-Class should be worried. Not only does it have rear steer and steer-by-wire, so it's extremely easy to maneuver, it may have one of the most advanced hydraulic systems I've ever seen.

It can pretty much counteract any bump. Wow. And after you go over something four times, it'll memorize it so that the fifth time, it's like that bump never existed. Inside, you get pillows and your headrests, heated, ventilated, and massaging leather seats, a passenger screen built into my dash, a main screen that works super fast. I get a driving display, a head-up display, and my steering works super fast. I also... That's pretty dope. Yeah, what's interesting, what he said is that the car is learning the terrain. If it went over it once, it'll learn it. Yes. I think this is the next sort of big thing with AI, whether it's robotics, cars, or even Chad GPT now, it has memory.

It, like, learns about you and starts to, like, sort of similar to how social media feeds, but I think in a lot of ways more negative, learn about you. I think these systems will start to have, like, you know, more online learning instead of just training them in these large data centers and these large data and then giving you this thing that doesn't know anything about it. It's totally stateless. As you use these devices, they will, like, learn your pattern, your behavior, and all of that. Yeah. Why is China so much better at making these cars than us?

Yeah, because we never think that way because we deal in terms. Yeah, four-year. Four-year terms. That's the problem. Also public companies, four-year terms, public companies, quarters. Right. Quarters. And again, this is back to this managerial idea run by managers that part of the reason why Zuck has complete control. How much did he spend on VR? Like, I don't know, $30, $40 billion, maybe more per year, maybe. He spent a ton of money, like a GDP worth, like a small state GDP worth of money on VR. And the public market was totally doubtful of that. And the reason he could do that is because he has, what are they called, super voting shares.

And so he has complete control of the company and he can't be unseated by activist investors, sort of what's been done to – Wasn't there like a recent trial where they were trying to impeach him for saying that? They were trying to remove him from that? They can't unless – I know, but there was a trial. I think there's a trial that's going on – it was going on like very recently. Oh, I think you're thinking about antitrust. No, no. There's something about him saying that he can't be fired. but it's true it is true it's legal i know it is nonsense the trial i believe the trial is nonsense but like a friend of mine was actually representing him in this maybe in europe or something i don't think so i think it's in america um google uh mark zuckerberg josh dubin trial see if you can find anything on that but yeah mark can think on the order of um decades like when i was there at facebook he was talking about uh the idea that like there's going to be a fundamental shift he's like if you look if you look back 100 years computers every you know 20 years or whatever change the user interface modality you go from terminals and mainframes to to desktop computers to you know mobile computing and he was like okay what's next and first guess was like vr

And now I think their best guess is like AR plus AI. Like the AR glasses, their new meta Ray-Ban glasses plus AI. And they can make massive investment. They just made crazy investment. This company, Scale AI. Scale AI is a data provider for OpenAI and Google. And what they do is OpenAI will say, I want the best law and legal data to train the best legal machine learning model. And they'll go to places where the labor costs are low, but maybe still well-educated. There are places in Africa and Asia that are like that. And they'll sit them down and say, okay, you're going to get these tasks, these legal programming, whatever tasks, and you're going to do them, and you're going to write your thoughts as you're doing them.

I'm simplifying it, but basically that. They collect all this data. Basically, it's labeled labor. They take it, they put it in the models, and they train the models. And OpenAI spends billions of dollars on that, Anthropik, all these companies. And so this company was the major data provider, and Meta just acquired them. You know, there's this new trend. of acquisitions, I assume because they want to get around regulations, but they bought 49% of the company, and then they hired all the leadership. So the scale AI, like Meta, hired the leadership there and bought out the investors. They put $15 billion into the company.

The weird thing about it is Google and OpenAI were like, we're not going to use this shit anymore um so the company value went down because people you know these companies don't want to use it and now they're going to to other companies and so in effect zuck bought a talent for 15 billion dollars wow can you imagine that talent for 15 billion dollars um uh google recently bought a company for one known researcher who's one of the inventors of the large language model technology, Noam Shazeer, for $3 billion, bought his company, and I think they're not really... They do these weird deals where they buy out the investors and they let the company run as a shell of itself, and then they acquire the talent.

Wow. Microsoft did the same thing. That's crazy. So it's just these unique individuals. that are very valuable there. Very, very valuable, worth billions of dollars. Sam Altman says, Metatron failed to poach OpenAI's talent with a $100 million offer. So this $100 million is sign-on bonus. This is not even salary. Or equity. It's just bonus. $100 million bonus. Just come here. Failed and failed. I don't know about failed. I mean, I'm sure he's going to say that. He worded it in a weird way. He said, our best talent hasn't taken it so you could have been of course he's going to say that of course the people that did take it well they weren't our best talent they were our best yeah we don't even like those guys anymore and by the way OpenAI does it to companies like ours like it's just a question of scale like Zuck can give them a hundred million dollars and steal the best talent and like companies like OpenAI which I love but they go to like small startups and give them ten million dollars to grab their talent right but you know it's it's very, very competitive right now. And there are like, I don't know if these individuals are actually worth these billions of dollars, but the talent war is so crazy because everyone feels like

If AI analyzes all the past creativity, all the different works of literature, all the different music, all the different things that humans have created completely without AI, Do you think it could understand the mechanisms involved in creativity and make a reasonable facsimile?

I think it will be able to imitate very well how humans come up with new ideas in a way that it remixes all the existing ideas. um, from its training data. But by the way, again, this is super powerful. This is not like a dig at AI, the ability to remix all the available data into new, potentially new ideas or newish ideas because their remixes, their derivative is still very, very powerful. But, um, you know, the best marketers, the best, like, you know, think of, um, you know, one of my favorite, uh, marketing videos is think different from Apple. It's awesome. Like, I don't think that like really machines are at a point where they, like, I try to talk to Chad Chiptie a lot about like, you know, marketing or naming. It's so bad at that. It's like midwit bad at that. Um, and, and I, I, you know, for now, but, but, but that's the thing. It's like, I just don't see, and look, I'm not, I'm not, um, an AI researcher and maybe they're working to have ideas there, But in the current landscape of the technology that we have today, it's hard to imagine how these AIs are going to get better at, say, literature or the softer things that we as humans find really compelling.

What's interesting is the thing that's the most at threat is these sort of middle-of-the-road Hollywood movies that are essentially doing exactly what you said about AI. They're sort of like, you know, they're sort of remixing old themes and tropes and figuring out a way to repackage it. But I think actually those tools in the hands of humans, they'll be able to create new interesting movies and things like that. Right. In the hands of humans. So with additional human creativity applied. Right. So the man-machine symbiosis. Right. This was the term that's used by J.C. LeCleiter, like the grandfather of the internet from ARPA.

A lot of those guys kind of imagined a lot of what's going to have a lot of the future. And this idea of like human plus machine will be able to create amazing things. So what people are making with Veo is not because the machine is really good at painting it. Right. At like generating it and making it. But it can't make it without the prompts. Like, the really funny, like, yeah, without the problem, like, the Bigfoot finds Tren, and they inject themselves with Tren, they start working out. I'm telling you, my TikTok feed is really wild right now. Like, I just, it's like this, like, real weird, distorted human mind to come up with this.

lightweight baby have you seen the ones where it's Trump and Elon and Putin and they're all in a band they're playing Creedence Clearwater Revival Fortunate Son it's crazy another one is the LA riots and how all the world leaders are sort of gangsters and the riots that one is hilarious yeah that kind of stuff is fun it's interesting how quickly it can be made too you know something that would take a long time through these video editors where they were using computer generated imagery for a long time but it's very painstaking and very you know very expensive you know now it's really cheap on the way here i was like i want to make an app to sort of impress you with our technology i was like what what would joe like uh and then i came up with this idea of like, um, a squat form analyzer. Uh, and so in, in, in the car over, uh, way here started in the lobby, but, um, I, I made this app to, um, you made it on the way over here on the way on my phone. Uh, and this is the like really exciting thing about.

What we built with being able to, like, program on your phone is, you know, being able to, like, have that inspiration that, you know, can come anytime and just, like, immediately pull out your phone and start building it. So, here I'll show you. So, basically, you just start recording. and then do a few squats. Okay. It's going to analyze it just from there? Yeah. But, I mean, the camera angle is not that great, but let's try it. Right, okay. And it's going to be able to tell you whether or not you're doing it well? Yeah. Those are not my best squats, just so you know, Joe Rogan. I'm not judging you.

I used to squat 350 pounds. So now it's integrating Google Gemini model to kind of run through the video, analyze it, and I'll come up with a score and then suggestions. And so, again, this is like a random idea. I was like, okay, what would be interesting to you? But that's a really interesting thing that people could use at the gym, though. Like, not just for squats, but maybe for chin-ups and all kinds of stuff. Like, oh, maybe, you know, I'm looking at your form, and this is what you need to do. Get a little lower, you know, make your elbows parallel to your body, whatever. I built so many personal apps.

Like, I build apps for analyzing my health. Like, I talked about some of my health problems that are now a lot better. Look, bad form. Oh. Oh, just like straight away, critical. So mean. You got a nice position, unable to probably assess from the video angle. So, yeah, it's a little. Okay, so it's saying it's not the best angle. But it's saying my depth is bad, which was actually bad. And I was leaning forward. But it's pretty good. I tried it a few times. It's really good at that. And so I build a lot of apps for, like, just my personal life. That would be great for a person who doesn't want a trainer.

Right. You know, I don't want to deal with some person. Let me just work out on my own. But am I doing this right? Set your phone up. Have it correct you. Yeah. Yeah. At the office, some guys are building. We have this partnership with Whoop. I don't know if you've ever tried it. Sure, I use Whoop. And they're building an app so we can start competing on workouts based on Whoop data. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Our company is, like, very weird for Silicon Valley. Like, we have a jujitsu mat, and we have – Oh, really? Yeah, we have – Do you guys bring in trainers? Mm-hmm. Oh, that's fucking great.

That's awesome. Don't get hurt. It's – you know, I only recently got into it, but the hardest thing about it is to be calm because your impulse is to overpower. Yes. Yeah. Is to, like – The Gracies have a great saying, keep it playful. yeah and that's how you really learn the best it's very hard and listen i'm a giant hypocrite because most of my jujitsu career i was a meathead you know and i that's one of the reasons why i started really lifting weights a lot is like i really like strength is very valuable and it is it is valuable but technique is the most valuable and the best way to acquire technique is to pretend that you don't have any strength the best way to acquire technique is to pretend to Yeah, don't force things. Just find the best path. And that requires a lot of data. So you have to understand the positions.

Really analyze them. The best jiu-jitsu guys are really smart, like Mikey Musumichi, Gordon Ryan, Craig Jones. Those are very intelligent people, and that's why they're so good at jiu-jitsu. And then you also have to apply that intelligence to recognize that discipline is a massive factor. Like Mikey Musumichi trains every day, 12 hours a day. 12 hours a day? 12 hours a day. Oh, yeah. Is that humanly possible? It's possible, yeah, because he's not training full blast. It's not like, like you can't squat 12 hours a day, 350 pounds, your body will break down, but you can go over positions over and over and over and over again until they're in muscle memory, but you're not doing them at full strength. Right. So like if you're rolling, right. Um, so say if you're doing drills, uh, you would set up like a guard pass, you know, when you're doing a guard pass, you would tell the person lightly resist and I I'm going to put light pressure on you and you go over that position you know um knee shield pass you know hip into it turn here's the counter on the counter darse you know go for the darse the person uh defends the darse roll take the back and just do that over and over and over again until it's

muscle memory right yeah and it's like completely ingrained in your body sort of chess players is like let's focus on the end game yeah just keep repeating the end game and yeah i read the It's a Josh Whiteskin book. What was it called? I forgot. You know his book about, I think, chess and jiu-jitsu, was it? Yeah, Josh was just in here a few months ago. He's great. But it's so interesting to see a super intelligent person apply that intelligence to jiu-jitsu. You know, one of the interesting things when I started getting into – I've always been into different kinds of sports. and then periods of extreme programming and obesity.

But then I tried to get back into it. I was a swimmer early on. But one thing that I found, especially in the lifting community, is how intelligent everyone are. They're actually almost like, you know, they're so focused. they're um autistically focused on like form and program and you know they spend so much time designing these spreadsheets for your program and yeah well that's people have this like really we we have this view of things physical that physical things are not intelligent things but you need intelligence in order to manage emotions. Emotions are a critical aspect of anything physical. Any really good athlete, you need a few factors. You need discipline, hard work, genetics, but you need intelligence. It might not be the same intelligence. People People also, they confuse intelligence with your ability to express yourself, your vocabulary, your history of reading.

It's like a bias almost. Yes, it's a huge bias. That's like the sort of modern desk job, the laptop class bias. Well, they assume that anything that you're doing physically, you're now no longer using your mind. But it's not true. In order to be disciplined, you have to understand how to manage your mind. Managing your mind is an intelligence. And the ability to override those emotions, to conquer that inner bitch that comes to you every time I lift that fucking lid off of that cold plunge, that takes intelligence. You have to understand that this temporary discomfort is worth it in the long run because I'm going to have an incredible result after this is over.

I'm going to feel so much better. Right, right, right. Yeah, I haven't thought about intelligence in order to manage your emotions, but that's totally true because you're constantly doing the self-talk. Yes. You're trying to like trick yourself. There's a lot of people that are very intelligent that don't have control over their emotions. Yeah. But they're intelligent in some ways. It's just they've missed this one aspect of intelligence, which is the management of the functions of the mind itself. Right. And they don't think that that's critical, but it is critical. It's critical to every aspect of your life.

and it'll actually improve all those other intellectual pursuits. To tie it back to the AI discussion, I think a lot of the programmer researcher type is they know that one form of intelligence and they over-rotate on that. And that's why I was like, oh, we're so close to perfecting intelligence because that's what you know. But there's a lot of other forms of intelligence. There's a lot of forms of intelligence. And unfortunately, we're very narrow in our perceptions of these things and very biased. And we think that our intelligence is the only intelligence. And that this one thing that we concentrate on, this is the only thing that's important.

Right. Have you read or done any CBT, cognitive behavior therapy? No. uh basically uh cbt is like a way to uh get over depression and anxiety based on self self-talk and cues um i i had to use it again i had like sleep issues i had to use cbti um kind of behavior therapy for insomnia um and the the idea behind it is to um uh build up what's called uh sleep pressure uh so you don't first of all you you insomnia is performance anxiety once you stop once you have insomnia you start having anxiety like by the time bedtime comes like oh my god i'm just gonna right that's interesting i'm just gonna you know torn over and bad and i'm just gonna be in bed and then you start associating your bedroom with the suffering of insomnia because you're, like, sitting there and, like, you know, you're all night and really suffering.

It's really horrific. And first of all, you treat your bedroom as a sanctuary. You're only there when you want to sleep. So that's, like, one thing you program yourself to do. And the other thing is you don't nap the entire day. You don't nap at all, no matter what happens. Like, even if you're real sleepy, like, get up and take a walk or whatever. and then you build up what's called sleep pressure. Now you have a lot of sleepiness. So you go to bed, you try to fall asleep. If you don't fall asleep within 15, 20 minutes, you get up, you go out, you do something else. And then when you feel really tired again, you go back to bed.

Oh, God. And then finally, once you fall asleep, if you wake up in the middle of the night, which is another sort of form of insomnia, instead of staying in bed, you get up, you go somewhere else, you go read, or do whatever and like slowly you program yourself to see your bed and oh like my the bed is where i sleep it's only where i sleep i don't do anything else there um and you can you can get over insomnia that way instead of using pills and all the other stuff oh the pills are the worst god people that need those fucking things to sleep i feel for them i could go i can sleep like that that's amazing i can sleep on that's a blessing that's a blessing my wife hates It drives her nuts because sometimes she has insomnia.

I could sleep on rocks. I could just go lay down on a dirt road and fall asleep. Wow. But I'm always going hard. When you're always going hard, you're— That's the other thing. Yeah. I don't take naps. Right. And I work out basically every day. And so I'm always tired. I'm always ready to go to sleep. So do you fight it or do you— It's not in you to like take a nap. I don't need a nap. Yeah? Yeah, I never need naps. How many hours do you sleep? I try to get eight. Do you get eight? No, last night I didn't get eight, but I got seven, six and a half, probably I got six and a half last night. Yeah. But that was because I got home and I started watching TV because I was a little freaked out about the war. And so when I'm freaked out about the war, I like to fill my mind with nonsense. What kind of nonsense?

Well, I just watch things that have nothing to do with the war like I'm I play pool I'm pretty competitive. I'm real pretty good And so I like watching professional pool matches and there's a lot of them on YouTube So I just watch pool and I just watch you know patterns how guys get out Yeah stroke the hell they use their stroke like how different guys have different approaches to the game It's crazy to type a people I was like for you Although pool is an escape it suddenly becomes an obsession and you're like I need to be the best at it I'm very obsessed. So, you know, I told you I quit video games, but then last year I was very stressed.

Like, the company was doing really poorly before we sort of invented this agent technology. And then also the, you know, Gaza genocide. I was, like, watching these videos every night. It was just, like, really, really affecting me. I can't watch that stuff at night. At night is when I get my anxiety. Yeah. I mean, I don't generally have anxiety, but not like a lot of people do. I mean, when I say anxiety, I really feel for people that genuinely suffer from actual anxiety. My anxiety is all sort of self-imposed. And when I get online at night and I think about the world, my family's asleep, which is generally when I write.

As long as I'm writing, I'm okay. Comedy? Yeah. You know, I write like sort of an essay form that I extract the comedy from it. but when I get online and I just pay attention to the world that's when I really freak out because it's all out of your control and it's just murderous psychopaths that are running the world and just it just at any moment you could be you know in a place where they decide to attack and then you're a pawn in this fucking insane game that these people are playing in the world that's why I I felt really frustrated with my family being there. I was like, they have no say in it.

Right. The war started, rockets are flying. Right, right. But anyways, I started playing a video game. It's called Hades, Hades 2. It's like an RPG video game. And I was like, I'm trying to disconnect. And then I started speed running that game. Do you know what speed running is? No. It's like you're trying to finish the game as fast as possible. as fast as human is possible um and i got down to like six minutes and i was number 50 in the world whoa but legitimately oh yeah yeah my score is online to play for that was crazy why is he doing that that was crazy it's it's myth building you know yeah weird yeah um but yeah it is it is this thing about about type a people like you're uh you're just you're you know even in the in the your escapism becomes competitive and stressful well sort of but it's also i feel like it's a discipline i feel like uh pool is a discipline just like archery i'm also obsessed with archery archery is a discipline and i feel like the more divergent disciplines that you have in your life the more you understand what it is about these things that makes you excel and get better at them and the more thing when i get better at those things i get better at life it's i apply

it to everything yeah this is another thing that ai now struggles with which is called transfer learning you're learning something from domain like learning something from math on how to like do reasoning on math and being able to do in politics we just don't have evidence of of that yet um and i know i feel the same way everything like even powerlifting when i got really into it which is like the most unhealthy sport you can yeah you can do you break your joints down break your joints you look like shit because you know the more you eat you can lift more you get fat they're all fat unless they're competing in a weight class right you have to be lean yeah um and uh what is that Repertoire. Have you ever had him on?

The Jug of Milk. Go Mad. Do you know Go Mad? No. Gallon of Milk a Day. Do you know that, Jamie? Do you know it? Disgusting. Disgusting, yeah. He drinks a gallon of milk a day? Yeah, so Mark Repertoire, he wrote this book called Starting Strength, and it became the main way most guys, at least my age, getting into powerlifting. It was about technique. It was about... His whole thing is like, look, everyone comes into lifting and they think it's bodybuilding. And powerlifting is nothing like that. And he also looks like shit and he's fat. But his technique is amazing. And so the way he gets young guys to, like, get really good and really strong, he puts them on a gallon milk a day.

Does that really have a positive effect? Yeah. I mean, he has a YouTube channel. Like, he has a lot of guys that are really, really strong. And he's been a coach for a lot of people. What is it about a gallon of milk a day? Is it just the protein intake? What is it? I think calories too. Paragraph on it. Okay, here it is. Drink a gallon of milk a day. go mad is undeniably the most effective nutritional strategy for adding slabs of mass to young underweight males milk is relatively cheap painless to prepare and the macronutrient profile is very balanced and calories are always easier to drink than eat unfortunately those interested in muscular hypertrophy hypertrophy rather who are not young underweight and male populations where go mad is not recommended will need to put more effort into the battle to avoid excess fat accumulation. Body composition can be manipulated progressively, much like barbell training to achieve the best results. For example, the starting strength novice linear progression holds exercise selection frequency and volume variables constant. Okay. Every 48 to 72 hours, the load stressor is incrementally increased to elicit an adaptation in strength. If the load increase is too significant

or insignificant, the desired adaptation won't take place. Yeah, this is the intelligence, right? This is the intelligence involved in lifting that people who are on the outside of it would dismiss. Science, yeah. I'm so honored to be the guy that introduces Joe Rogan to starting strength. Go mad. Yeah, go mad. Rupert Watch is so funny. You should watch some of his videos. He has this very thick Texan accent. His audience shits on him all the time. They call him fat and ugly and whatever. And he abuses his audience, too. let me see this guy put his picture up that's the no that's old photo he's not much better yeah so he's just a nerd yeah he's a he's a huge nerd but like yeah he used to lift a lot a lot of weight yeah there's a lot that's what he used to look like that one photo with him with the hairy chest the black okay wow damn is that him i don't know i don't think so really those look like him yeah that's him he needs to be jacked okay that's good oh so he was a bodybuilder at one point in time but but then he got on that go match yet now he's a power lifter simply no other exercise no machine prevent the level of muscular stimulation and growth than the correctly performed full squat while he's dead lifting in that image that's weird so he he also makes his squat on

every on every uh day of lifting oh so squat every time every time you lift really yeah well his idea is like squat is a full body exercise Like, you can just go to the gym. And when I used to be busy and I just want to maintain, like, be healthy, I'll just squat every... Just get 15, 20 minutes of squatting. 15, 20 minutes of squatting and just get out of the gym. Yeah. But... Well, I do something with legs every day. Yeah. Yeah. You have to. Yeah. But squat, actually, it does feel like there's an upper body component to it as well. Well, it's also your body recognizes, like, oh, this asshole wants to lift, like, really heavy things.

We've got to get big. Right, exactly. Yeah, it's the best way to get big. Yeah, because your body just realizes. It's like, okay, we have to adapt. This shithead wants to lift giant things every day. Yeah, it's hilarious. And, you know, the other one, I'm sure you know him. I think you introduced me to him through your podcast, Louie Simmons. Oh, yeah. Those guys are crazy. You watched the Netflix documentary? I didn't watch the Netflix documentary. But we did actually interview him. He's like one of the few people that I traveled to go meet. Right. Who went to Westside Barbell. I saw that. It was great.

We have some of his equipment out here. He's gone now. That reverse hyper? Yeah. Reverse hyper is so good for people that have back problems. Everyone that has a back issue, let me show you something. And I bring them out to the reverse hyper machine, and I'm like, this thing will actively strengthen and decompress your spine. Right. Right. It's so good. It's so good for people that have, like, lower back issues where the doctor just wants to cut them. I'm like, hold on. Hold on. Don't do that right away. I had back pain since my late teens. and the doctors want to, like they did an MRI and they found that there's a bit of a bulge and they want to do an operations on it.

Yeah, they want to do a discectomy. Someone wanted to put me in antidepressants. Apparently you can manage pain with antidepressants. Have you heard of that? Yeah, apparently it's a thing. And through listening to your podcast and others, I was like, I was just going to get strong. So I got strong squats and things like that. And the pain got a lot better. It didn't go away entirely. But the thing that, like, really got me over the hump, and this one's crazy. Are you familiar with the mind-body prescription? No. John Sarno? Oh, okay, yes. I heard about him on Howard Stern because he was talking about how a lot of back pain is psychosomatic.

Psychosomatic, yeah. So his idea, and again, this is like— He doesn't understand jiu-jitsu because a lot of back pain is real as fuck. Right, right, right. Right. I mean, I don't think settle down. I think for me, it's always a combination of both. Like there's something physically happening. But like his idea is that his idea is that your mind is creating the pain to distract you from emotional, psychological pain. And I think that's the case in some people. Yeah. And and then doctors will go do an image and often they'll find something. And he thinks that, like, lumbar imperfections are almost in everyone.

Yes, I think that's true. And then the doctors latch on to that, and your mind latches on to that, and you start reinforcing, telling yourself that I have this thing, and the pain gets worse. There's also another thing called the salience network. Have you heard of this? No. If you can bring up the Wikipedia page for Salience Network, because I don't want to get it wrong, but the Salience Network is a network in the brain that neuroscientists found. My doctor, Tadiaki, he told me about this. The Salience Network gets reinforced whenever you obsess over your pains or your health issues. That makes sense.

So it's responsible for perception. And... The more you reinforce—it's like a muscle. The more you reinforce it, it's sort of like AI, you know, reinforcement learning. The more you reinforce it, it becomes more of an issue. Including various functions, including social behavior, self-awareness, and integrating sensory, emotional, and cognitive information. Boy, I bet social media is really bad for that. Right. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And so, you know, a lot of the, you know, fatigue and things like that, at some point, I'm like, fuck it. i did a lot of other things but at some point i'm like fuck it i don't i don't care about it i don't have it i'm just gonna i'm just gonna be uh i'm just gonna be good just not concentrate on that yeah because i was reading about it all the time i was doing i was like really worried and i had abigail schreier and i got better talking about that in regards to cognitive therapy that there's a lot of people that like obsess on their problems so much that their problems actually They become bigger.

Yes. And this is it. This is the neuroscience behind it, the salience network. Makes sense. Yeah. But there's legit back problems. Of course. Legit back. That's why the John Sarno thing, I was like, okay, not for me. I understand how some people could develop that issue. But his insight was like, look, I ran a clinic in New York City for a long time. And these chronic illnesses come in waves. there's a there's a ulcers wave in the like 90s oh because it became a thing that people were talking about a lot yes wow and then there's a there's like a neck pain and then there's an RSI the most recent one was RSI what is RSI?

repetitive strain injury and again these all things all these things have rational explanations for me I was in the computer all the time and I was like oh my my arm hurts and uh and yeah maybe you know there was some aspect of it i was programming a lot uh but but also after i read john sarno and and and i realized that some of it might be also psychological that you know it's stress it's uh i don't know what maybe i have some childhood issues but uh but but like you just realize that a lot of it and maybe the other way is true as well When you just, like, minimize it, it just becomes less of an issue in your mind.

But the fact that it is, like, fashion should tell you that there's something psychosomatic about it. Right. The fact that it does come in waves like that, for sure. And then once it's in the zeitgeist, ulcers, or whatever it is. Yeah. I remember when we were kids, like, everyone had ulcers. And I was like, oh, it's from coffee in the morning. And, like, there's all these. I don't know anyone that has ulcers now. Right. I don't either. that's true that's right that's crazy that's wild it is wild the mind like the the way it can benefit you or the way it can hold you prisoner yeah and again this is maybe why i have like a little like um different view about ai and humans and all that from from from silicon valley like this is a weird thing but um uh every time i set my mind to like meet someone i meet them including you oh wow that's weird like yeah i want to meet this person something happens some chain of events but obviously you know you also see it's obviously you're doing something very you're you're you're you're not just thinking it right you're also doing things right which is my problem with like the secret and like the manifesting thing i don't go that far but i don't know like there's something there's something there yeah i agree there's something to it yeah

i just i i think the mind and our connection to reality is not as simple as we've been told not at all i think there's there's some There's something there. And again, when you start looking at psychedelics and stuff like that, there's something there. And I remember listening to one of, I love JRE circa early 2010s. There was a remote viewing. You were talking about a remote viewing episode. And I was like, wow, that's crazy. And obviously very skeptical of it. the idea that you can meditate and like see somewhere else or see see it from above yeah i read a book about da vinci it's called da vinci's brain i think um and da vinci is like fascinating who's this fucking guy he right he does everything and um and he literally is like across all these domains and he doesn't he barely sleeps like he has this polyphasic sleep thing which i tried once is torture uh basically every four hours you sleep for 15 minutes when i was uh when i was

that was a great great conversation thank you um your app let everybody know about it replit there it is yeah replit yeah replit.com go make some apps go make some apps people avoid the whatever the hell's gonna happen with the ai all right thank you very much Thank you.