Free with a sign-in.
The best 11 min of 41
Planet Labs CEO: Why AI Data Centers Will Move to Space
Will Marshall argues that orbital data centers could eventually cost less than ground-based ones, while satellite intelligence gives governments earlier warning.
Sourcery · Molly O'Shea
- Will Marshall is cofounder and CEO of Planet Labs.
The best minutes
- 20:33Space-based compute could offer a cheaper power model4 min
- 4:05Satellite intelligence can give countries an information advantage3 min
- 29:20Marshall expects signs of life beyond Earth within a decadePro pick 4 min
Also worth watching
- 25:26Planet says it can deliver sovereign satellites in months3 min
- 8:28Planet's imagery reaches agriculture, finance and data centers2 min
- 17:21Natural-language AI could open satellite data to more customers2 min
- 14:43Planet's satellite fleet ranges from daily scans to methane detection3 min
- 35:23A NASA mentor gave Planet room to test phones in space3 min
Skip the four-minute facility and company overview, the sponsor reads, and the alien-conspiracy and science-fiction discussion.
Full analysis · 6 min read
Real Alpha · Nov 8
Will Marshall says orbit gets five times more power per solar panel
- Marshall says each solar panel gets five times more power in orbit than on the ground.
- That is a solar input comparison, not evidence of lower delivered-compute cost.
- The next proof is Google's TPU test, not a wholesale move of data centers.
Free with an account
Read the rest of the analysis
6 sections, the 5 other voices it tests Marshall against, and what it means for you. Every episode we cut gets one.
Check your inbox
We sent a link to your address. Click it to finish signing up. Not there in a minute? Look in spam.
or
Signed up before? The same buttons sign you in. The episode, its moments and the transcript stay free.
Marshall's five-times figure measures sunlight, not compute cost
Marshall's headline figure puts orbital solar output at five times the ground level per panel. He attributes that difference to sun-synchronous orbit, where panels can keep facing the sun.
That measures incoming solar power, not the cost of a delivered compute job. It leaves spacecraft, launch, useful chip-hours, and replacement cycles outside the comparison.
Marshall says the basic economics make sense and believes orbital compute will eventually be cheaper. Planet is part of that test after launching Google's test project.
Baiju Bhatt of Cowboy Space described near-continuous orbital solar power on The Shawn Ryan Show in October 2026. He emphasized avoiding land and local-grid demands.
On All-In in September 2026, SpaceX president Gwynne Shotwell tied orbit's appeal to land, launch, and cooling.
Still, those parallels show a thesis shared by space businesses, not independent verification. The comparison needs a cost per useful unit of compute.
“In space for each solar panel you get five times more power than you get on the ground”
Baiju Bhatt · The Shawn Ryan Show · Oct 27Orbit could ease data centers’ energy and land demands
Gwynne Shotwell · All-In · Sep 15SpaceX sees orbit as a faster site for AI compute
Our read
The five-times figure makes orbit worth testing, not a proven cheaper source of compute.
Google's first test targets faster satellite answers
Planet launched Google's first data-center test project last week. The host names it Suncatcher, and Marshall says the test will examine Google's TPUs in space.
That distinction matters to any buyer setting a compute budget. The proof point is hardware in orbit, while performance and service economics remain unanswered here.
Marshall had earlier described NVIDIA chips aboard Planet's Pelican spacecraft. Their nearer purpose is processing imagery before downlink, so users can receive answers sooner.
For example, Marshall said an image of the Los Angeles fires took several hours to reach responders and be processed. He asked whether orbital compute could cut that wait to minutes.
On Sources in October 2026, Alphabet CEO Sundar Pichai described Suncatcher as a long-term moonshot. He also pointed to near-constant solar access as a reason to explore it.
So Pichai's framing fits a research program better than an immediate capacity alternative. Buyers should separate an interesting test from available, reliable compute.
“We just launched last week the first data centers test project for Google”
Our read
Planet's clearest near-term case is faster access to satellite information. The Google test has not demonstrated commercial data-center economics.
The cheaper-power case leaves its cost denominator open
Marshall's ground comparison starts with intermittent solar, then adds gas or nuclear power and permitting. In orbit, he counts steady sunlight and radiators.
But the transcript gives no launch price, operating lifetime, maintenance cost, or cost per delivered computation. Without those inputs, cheaper remains his conclusion, not a demonstrated result.
On Sourcery in October 2026, Starcloud CEO Philip Johnston also treated launch cost as decisive to orbital data-center economics. His estimate ties the crossover to a launch-cost threshold.
Shotwell's All-In discussion in September 2026 also included launch alongside solar power and radiative cooling. Those factors are not minor footnotes to the energy comparison.
A buyer comparing options needs the full system boundary, including terrestrial power and cooling. Otherwise, the five-times figure can look like a cost result, though it is only one input.
“So it all actually is just going to be cheaper”
Philip Johnston · Sourcery · Oct 31Orbital data centers get cheaper below $500 per kilo- Gwynne Shotwell · All-In · Sep 15SpaceX sees orbit as a faster site for AI compute
Our read
Marshall supplies a reason orbit might win on energy. He does not supply the numbers needed to establish when it wins overall.
Chip reliability remains an unanswered operating cost
Marshall said the spacecraft was commissioned and doing well, but the TPU test was still ahead. That is deployment progress, not evidence of sustained compute performance.
For an operator, a chip that works after launch is only the first checkpoint. The business case also needs evidence about reliability, useful operating life, and hardware failures.
On Sourcery in October 2026, Starcloud CEO Philip Johnston described a three-month hot-chip burn-in to find failures before launch. His account shows how reliability can affect an orbital-compute model.
That does not establish Google's TPUs will have the same failure profile. But it shows why launch readiness and operating readiness are different tests.
Marshall gave no chip-life figures or service-level targets in this conversation. A procurement team should request those before treating orbital capacity as dependable infrastructure.
“We will test that TPU, we'll see how that goes”
Our read
The test can validate a spacecraft and a chip in orbit. It still needs to establish reliability over time, which affects usable capacity and cost.
Image processing offers a nearer test than relocation
The immediate job Marshall describes is processing satellite data closer to where it is collected. In that model, a spacecraft sends answers down instead of transmitting everything first.
Take the Los Angeles fires example. Marshall said the image was captured within a couple of hours. It arrived a couple of hours later, then may have needed another hour of processing.
He said minute-level delivery could help responders act sooner. But he did not quantify effects on response time or lives saved.
This is easier to test than moving general-purpose workloads to orbit. Teams can measure image-to-answer time, bandwidth, and whether faster delivery changes a decision.
Johnston's Sourcery discussion in October 2026 also linked orbital GPUs to faster satellite-image insights. That supports the same starting use case, while leaving the broader cost case open.
“What if we could have got that in minutes”
Our read
Edge processing gives the orbital-compute pitch a measurable first job. A useful trial should report latency and decision impact, not just successful deployment.
Community savings remain a proposition without a baseline
Marshall says orbital data centers could avoid local concerns about energy costs and water use. That matters to firms facing terrestrial infrastructure limits, but he gives no measured savings.
Meta president Dina Powell McCormick described the Louisiana deal on All-In in September 2026. It addressed water, power costs, grid resilience, and storms.
Still, local impacts appear negotiated and project-specific, not solved by power supply alone. Moving compute could change where those costs land, but this episode does not measure the tradeoff.
Marshall's eventual statement is broad, that putting infrastructure in orbit will be smarter. The evidence here is narrower, a Google test, a solar-power rationale, and faster satellite processing.
For leaders setting budgets, that supports staged evaluation rather than planning around a forecast. Require a working workload, a full cost model, and operating data before treating orbital capacity as a baseline assumption.
“it's also going to be better for communities that don't want these data centers in their backyard”
Our read
Orbit may reduce some terrestrial pressures, but Marshall does not quantify the community benefit. The grounded decision is to test specific workloads and costs.
What it means for you
- Set a workload baseline. For one satellite-data workflow, measure image-to-answer time and the decisions delayed by current processing. Compare any orbital trial against that baseline.
- Request full cost inputs. Ask vendors to show launch, operating life, maintenance, and delivered compute costs alongside solar output. Keep terrestrial power and cooling in the same comparison.
- Check reliability evidence. Ask what the in-orbit test measures for uptime, chip life, and failures. Separate a commissioned spacecraft from a service that can meet an operating target.
- Track local impact. If a project is justified by lower energy or water use, ask for a measured baseline and expected change. Treat unquantified community benefits as hypotheses.
What to watch
- The TPU test result and any performance figures Marshall said Planet will share.
- Whether orbital processing measurably cuts image-to-answer time.
- Whether a public cost model includes launch, reliability, and operating lifetime.
Send this to the CFO and infrastructure lead sizing compute options.
Watch the minute where Marshall gives the five-times solar figure
Written by Real Alpha from the episode's transcript and the other moments it links, then checked against the transcript. Quotes are the speaker's exact words.
Minute by minute
A Pro write-up, open to you here. Try Pro free for 7 days
A Pro write-up. The minute by minute is in Real Alpha Pro; the episode, its moments and the transcript stay free.
Read it with Pro, 7 days free- 1:44Automated production enables daily imaging
Marshall says Planet has automated satellite manufacturing and made its satellites smaller and less costly to produce. Its fleet images Earth's entire landmass every day, and the company sells that information for agriculture, security, disaster response and other uses.
- 4:11Satellite data gives defenders earlier warning
Marshall says Planet supplied imagery to help Ukraine monitor threats before and during Russia's invasion. He says the US Navy uses Planet data to monitor 13 million square kilometers of the South China Sea, and argues that earlier information can help countries prepare, deter threats and avoid war.
- 7:35Countries want sovereign satellites
Marshall says governments that initially asked to buy Planet's data began asking to operate satellites themselves. Japan is buying satellites, Germany is funding a fleet and Planet is also working with Sweden; customers receive control of the satellites after launch.
- 8:28Defense demand is growing fastest
Marshall says defense is Planet's strongest area of demand, but civil government and commercial customers are growing too. He names John Deere, Bayer and BASF as agriculture customers, and says hedge funds and hyperscalers use Planet data. He reports 58% year-on-year growth in the previous quarter and says defense drove much of it.
- 10:38Satellites are changing modern warfare
Marshall says warfare is becoming more hybrid and distributed, with drones, satellites and AI playing central roles. He also describes unexpected civilian uses of imagery, including efforts to protect dolphins in South America and help communities avoid stagnant water linked to river blindness.
- 14:43Planet's satellites serve distinct uses
Marshall says Doves scan Earth's landmass daily at three-meter resolution in eight spectral bands, while Pelicans take higher-resolution images of customer-selected locations. Tanager satellites capture 420 color bands that can identify species, distinguish camouflage and detect methane leaks. He says Planet aims to return and analyze a requested image within 30 minutes, while AI lets more people query the data.
- 19:41Space data centers could lower costs
Marshall says Planet stores most of its compute on Google Cloud and is adding more analytical tools to its data business. Planet has launched NVIDIA chips in orbit to process imagery faster, and its Google Project Suncatcher test will examine Google's TPUs in space. He argues that orbital solar panels can provide five times more power than panels on the ground, making space-based compute potentially cheaper over time.
- 25:26Satellites underpin security and sovereignty
Marshall says satellites act as countries' eyes and ears, supporting missile warnings, GPS, maps, weather and other infrastructure. He says countries want their own sensing capabilities; Planet launched Sweden's first satellite four months after signing a contract and a Germany-sponsored satellite in two months. He says the company screens deals against embargo lists and its own values review.
- 29:20Marshall expects signs of life beyond Earth
Marshall says Planet has not seen aliens and that none of the more than 6,300 planets discovered in the local galactic neighborhood shows obvious signs of life. He predicts scientists may find life within six or seven years by examining planetary atmospheres for chemical signatures such as oxygen. He says the absence of technological signals also raises questions about whether civilizations can survive their own technologies.
- 33:29Most alien reports have simple explanations
Marshall says a friend at NASA handled calls from people who thought they had seen aliens, and that more than 90% of reports involved people mistaking Venus for something else. He says unexplained cases exist, but the evidence does not support concluding that they involve aliens.
- 35:34Mentors helped shape Planet's beginnings
Marshall says astronomer Patrick Moore inspired him as a child, and he later studied with mathematician and cosmologist Roger Penrose. At NASA, he learned from Pete Warden, who gave the team room to try innovative ideas. Marshall says an experiment launching phones into space led to Planet.
- 38:15Persistence keeps the team moving
Marshall says persistence and endurance matter more to entrepreneurial success than timing or the idea alone. He says Planet's team kept going despite doubts from investors because it believed in the mission. Seven of its first 10 employees were still there at the 10th anniversary, and about half remained at the 15th.
Published Nov 5, 2026.
Transcript · 30 min read
Sourcery, hosted by Molly O'Shea, with Will Marshall.
Transcribed by machine (Whisper) from the episode’s audio, so a word may be off here and there.
Data centers in space, so have you thought about this at all? More than thought about it, we just launched last week the first test project for Google. Data centers is all an energy problem. In space, for each solar panel, you get five times more power than you get on the ground, because you can put them in a sun-synchronous orbit that is always looking at the sun. We're seeing two big trends in the world. One is the geopolitical changes that are happening, and the second is AI. We're seeing a lot of countries needing our data really quickly. The point is, information is power, and by giving it to these countries, we can help them diffuse tensions and make it more likely we don't need to go to war.
You're in beta with your AI app, so what are you doing in AI and how does that change? Will Marshall, thank you for having us at Planet Labs. No problem. Welcome again. I mean, it's fun to tour downstairs. We didn't mention this in the tour, which I think was a big miss, but we're in the heart of San Francisco right now. Correct. We're not in South Bay of LA. We're not in the middle of New Mexico. We are literally in San Francisco. Yeah, few people realize that there is a mass satellite manufacturing facility in the middle of San Francisco. So why did you choose this location? Well, we were at NASA Ames, our founding team, just down the road near Mountain View.
and but we all wanted to be in the city where the cool kids hang out so we came up here and the same today look at the AI companies. Anthropics a few blocks that way, OpenAI is a few blocks that way and even the Google Gemini team, you think of Google being in Mandeview but the Google Gemini team is a few blocks down the road. All the young engineers want to be in San Francisco so we go where the cool people are. So for people who haven't watched it yet we just came off of a tour of your facility, what did we just see? Yeah, I mean, what we just saw was a manufacturing facility for satellites.
Read the whole transcript
We've made it way more automated, taken satellites the size of a double-decker bus and shrunk them down. You can see some of them in the background here and enabled us to be able to launch them many more and at lower cost. And with all of that, we have put up enough satellites to image the entire Earth every day, which is the first fleet that has ever done that. We launched the first set of satellites that grew to over 100 satellites, the first big-ish constellation of satellites. Now Starlink is a bigger constellation. Now what is all that for? This is what we can talk about now. So I mean really in the end this is an information business. We're selling information. Why? Because we collect all this information about the planet, and we want to help people make smarter decisions, whether that's for agriculture to improve crop yields, for security, for threats around the planet, for disaster response, for all sorts of, all manner of applications. And the addition of AI that we were just looking at means that more and more people can get access. But let me say in a big sense, we're seeing two big trends in the world. One is the geopolitical changes that are happening, the fragmentation, the changes to the geopolitical environment. And
the second is AI. Both huge forces. Now space, generally, and planet in particular, are super relevant to both of those. Geopolitics is all about understanding threats around the corner understanding what's going on disasters and so on and what better than information to help you understand that and then AI is all about having better information so we can dive into each one of those a little bit more but basically satellite data is critical to underpinning security sustainability AI, a lot of it. And so we're seeing a boon right now, which is why we're on this floor, which we've just doubled our manufacturing capacity here in San Francisco. And that's all
“The US Navy uses us to monitor all of the South China Sea, 13 million square kilometers.”
are doing something really unique, imaging the whole world. We give everyone a peripheral vision of what's going on to help them see threats earlier. Normally, satellites before Planet were only used to look at the things people knew to look at. The nuclear facility in North Korea, the Russian missile factory, what have you. But we look at everything else and find if there's things that might be emerging that they didn't know they needed to look at so now countries are coming to us and saying can we buy your data can we buy your ai that sits on top to find these new threats and they're also saying hey can we just buy your satellites because we want some of them ourselves as well yeah and we're initially we were like well you could just buy the data and
then they were like no no no we really want the satellites so that we have sovereign control of them. So then we started on We're sponsoring the mail on that, and now we've done a number of deals. Japan is buying some of our satellites. Germany is sponsoring and funding another fleet of satellites. We're doing some for Sweden. And these are countries that are now getting their first and best optical reconnaissance system that we build, we launch them into space, and then we hand over the keys so that they get to operate them. And that's also a booming business. So now this is why we're in this lab that's built up, because we're seeing so much demand for all of that.
“some of the hedge funds like to work with us to get alpha on stocks and commodities around the planet.”
Undersecretary of Defense for the Department of War, and also the CTO there. And of a few companies, I think it was three or four, he mentioned Planet Labs. Is that why you came? Because you said it was a good idea. Yeah. Look, again, new technology is changing the nature of warfare. Now, it is increasingly hybrid, it's increasingly distributed, and it's increasingly new technologies that can help you address that.
Drone, satellites, and AI are the core of that. So, satellites is less known than the drones, but they're playing a critical role around the world, whether that's in Ukraine or in Iran and other places around the planet. I have to ask you, what is the craziest thing or most surprising thing that you've seen? Oh, my God. I've seen so many things. But basically, when you look at a map and you see it's just static, it isn't. The whole world is changing. If you look at a field, the river will move. Human activity is changing everything, but everything is changing. But, I mean, we've seen... What I'm most excited about is what people do with our imagery.
Like, it's a huge range of things. To give you some bizarre examples, We had some people in South America protecting dolphins in rivers. Even though we can't see them, we can see the activity that was limiting their... their range or something, and we saw people who use our data in Africa to stop river blindness. You're like, how on earth can we help with river blindness? It's a disease that's river-based, but we obviously can't see what it is. But it's all to do with how close the village is to the stagnant water. And we can see stagnant water in the imagery. So these NGOs were using it to warn villages, you're close to stagnant water, therefore get out of this way or what have you.
So it's just all over the place. The most interesting applications on the defense side are a little bit more sensitive, but just know that it's playing a big role in these conflicts around the world. And I believe one that is really helpful for the planet. As I said, diffuse tension, reduce the likelihood of civilian casualties, reduce the likelihood of war at all happening because the best situation is that we don't enter a war in the first place. And information diffuses that tensions because it means that different sides can understand what's going on. This episode is brought to you by Brex, my favorite.
You become what you spend on. And I refuse to spend my time on work that shouldn't exist. Expense reports, receipt chasing, and manual closes. the companies building what's next from Vercel, OpenAI, Anthropic, Granola, and Deepgram all made the same call. They all run on Brex. Brex is the intelligent finance platform that combines cards, expenses, and banking into a single stack with agentic finance built in. AI agents that handle expenses automatically enforce policy before spend happens and close your books in minutes. That's why Sorcery runs on Brex, so I can spend time on building and not busy work. It's time to get Brex AF. Learn more at brex.com slash sorcery. That's B-R-E-X dot com slash S-O-U-R-C-E-R-Y. Bye. From handshake to signature faster, Harvey, the AI platform built for legal work is trusted by 80% of the AMLA 100 and over 20% of the Fortune 500. Learn more today at harvey.ai. That's harvey.ai. AI needs more than chips. It needs power, land, and infrastructure.
Zone develops next-generation data center campuses, partnering with AI companies, site developers, and technology leaders to bring compute online faster and at scale. Zone is building the foundation of the AI frontier. Visit zone frontier.com to learn more. That's zone frontier.com to learn
“these have 420 color bands that enable you to sort of get a fingerprint of what you see on the Earth.”
“So AI is coming along and is like, you could just ask questions and get answers. That is going to totally explode the number of users.”
we were walking over there because through all the ai conversations that we have on sorcery it always comes down to compute so where are you first like where are you storing all this how are you handling the shift in business model like where where are you getting all the Well, the compute pieces are simple. We put it on Google Cloud. We have some stuff on AWS as well, but mainly on Google Cloud. Yeah, I mean, it's not changing the business model that much because we were mainly selling data anyway.
But now it's just exploding the number of people that can get value out of it. It's true that we're now adding more analytical layers towards what we call solutions, right? That's already using some AI. But the AI tools that you were seeing are much more flexible. So again, it's not so specialized. It's more that you can ask any question in simple language terms, and it will have a go.
“In space for each solar panel you get five times more power than you get on the ground because you can put them in a sun-synchronous orbit”
How good is AI at real professional work? Merkur's AI Productivity Index, or APEX, tracks it with every major frontier model release. filled with partners like Harvey and Cognition, see where the frontier actually stands at mercore.com slash apex. Today's episode is sponsored by VCX by Fundrise, the public ticker for private tech, allowing investors of all sizes to invest in venture capital. Learn more at getvcx.com. Public is a multi-asset investing platform where you can automate your investing with AI agents. Create your own custom agent with a simple prompt. Agents can monitor markets, execute trading strategies, and manage your cash across stocks, bonds, options, crypto, and more. Want to buy at market close and sell the next day's open? Just tell your agent.
Automate your investing at public.com. Founders scale faster on deal. Set up payroll for any country in minutes, hire anyone anywhere, get visas handled fast, and get back to building. visit deal.com slash sorcery. That's D-E-E-L dot com slash sorcery.
“In the case of Sweden, we managed to launch the first satellite for them in four months after we signed the contract.”
things uh we're really leading the world in who's on the no-go list well there's definitely no go lists um i mean firstly there's a list of u.s embargoed countries um the eu has equivalent lists the un obviously we don't tell the terrorists and you know to uh north korea um but we in addition have a group of employees that look at deals and really think how is this aligned with our values and ensuring that we're going to see positive outcomes from that so we really care about this it's something that we think very carefully about we know that our technology is very powerful and we want to be good stewards of that well this is a difficult question you You have probably seen more images of the Earth than anyone else.
“I predict that we'll actually find life off Earth within the next 10 years.”
Are there any conspiracy theories we should be paying attention to? I'm not a big... I mean, you're talking to a scientist here. Okay. Most of that... My friend at NASA used to run the hotline for aliens, and 90-something percent... The hotline for aliens?
Basically. Like if the aliens would call? The crazy... No, no, not the aliens. No, the people calling thinking they've seen aliens. Oh, gosh. Is what it meant. Or the fruitcake line, as he would call it. Oh, no. Because most of it, unfortunately, isn't real. It's like most of it is people observing Venus and not realizing that it's Venus. Over 90% is that one use case, by the way. So, unfortunately, most of these things have very simple explanations. and even the ones that we can't explain, and there are definitely some that we can't explain, the chances of it being aliens are really low. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and we haven't got that.
But it's fun to think about aliens in our galactic neighborhood, and I think, again, in the next few years, we might see some. Do you have any particular sci-fi movies or books that you like? Well, I like Star Trek. I like... Probably my favorite is Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which was made into a film, but the best is the radio series original. Which is, I mean, those guys sometimes were drunk doing this radio, but they were amazingly funny. And that's why, yeah, my favorite number is 42, the answer to life, the universe and everything and all the rest of it. Amazing. OK, so as we close out, I'm going to ask our partner a question.
So our partner is Brex, Spending Sparter, Moving Faster, their corporate agentic finance platform. they're super intelligent because that's what we call it now super intelligence um so in terms of the topic of performance i like to take on this in more of like a personal bend like people say
“And he really gave us a shield at NASA to do innovative things.”
I guess to distill that down, what is the key lesson that you've learned through building the company throughout the years, going public, launching more into space? Well, people say startups are all about timing. I say, and the best idea. And, of course, those things are obviously important. But I'd say persistence and endurance is the biggest thing that actually distinguishes entrepreneurs that succeed and don't.
Our team has been at this for years, and we knew that we were on a mission that was really important to help the planet. Security, sustainability, AI, all the things that we can envision, how it can help us. And we weren't going to stop just because some VC said, no, you can't. That's crazy. No one's ever launched that many satellites. no one's ever, you know, whatever. And that determination, that grit is what keeps and that inspiration of helping the planet and making the best positive contribution with these tools is what keeps us going every day. And I was so proud on our 10th anniversary that seven of the first 10 employees of Planet were still working at Planet.
Wow. And we just had our 15th anniversary and there's still about half of the first 10 is still a planet. That says a huge amount, right? They could probably work anywhere, these guys. The incredible skills. But they choose to continue to work at Planet because they think the mission's cool. They're doing amazing. They get to work on satellites every day. And who doesn't like that? I don't know. People love it. People love it. And if you haven't watched the tour yet, please watch the tour. It's amazing. Will, thank you so much. What an amazing place to end it. And congrats with all the success. Thanks for coming.
Hey, it's Molly. If you enjoy our interviews, check out our newsletter, Sorcery.bc, where we deliver a once-a-week top deals and tech headlines email, and also go deeper on our podcast interviews. Subscribe to Sorcery today. And don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen. Link in description to sign up.
